Job Discussion Forums

[billwynne]

It looks like my wife and I, and all the other foreign teachers, will be gone from this college within a week, so they'll be recruiting. Learn from our ordeal.

Arrived in late August on tourist visas. The school did nothing about our visas, and sent us back to HK for another set of tourist visas. In October, they got us 30 day F visas, which expire 11-29. We've been demanding answers, and tonight were presented with a letter which reads in part: "We advise you to urgently persue (sic) an appropriate visa, that would allow you to continue to work in China". So we're all packing. And don't know where we're going.

The contract looked good. 7,000 rmb a month, medical insurance, lodging, airfare reimbursement at the end, lots of holidays, etc. And the apartment on campus is nice enough, but it was filthy, and it took a week to get a bed and a toilet seat.

But it turned out that Guangzhou International Economics College is not in Guangzhou! What naive newbies we were. It's in a farming village called Da Yuan. To get to GZ, you pay a motorcycle guy 3 rmb to take you a mile to the main road. Catch the 862B bus, and in one and a half to two hours, you're in GZ. Getting food and other necessities has been a nightmare.

Foreign teachers are not trained to use the AV equipment in the classrooms, so my wife and I prevailed upon students to help us through all the chinese language prompts. But often the chinese teachers, who are overtly hostile, lock up the equipment. Can't make copies or get anything printed. No textbooks for some of the classes, and the books they do provide are a joke.

We teach mostly second year students majoring in "business english". Only most of them speak no english at all. We also teach some freshman, and they're less prepared. And no, there aren't any chinese speaking assistants. Classes have over 50 students per class. After two months of idealistic attempts to teach, it became clear that our students mostly don't understand anything we say. We truly feel bad that these students' parents are paying good money for this nonsense. Maybe 15 percent of my "business english" sophomores have good enough english to wait tables in a restaurant that caters to westerners.

When I got sick last month, I discovered that neither I nor any of the other foreign teachers have medical insurance. I had to spend a few nights in the hospital-bronchitis. I'm out of pocket over 3,000 rmb. Then my wife got sick, which we blame on the extremely filthy, never cleaned up classrooms where we work. (When the trash piles up high enough, the kids take it upon themselves to do some rudimentary pickup, but mopping and trashcans are unheard of) So far, her health care has cost us over 15,000 rmb. The school has told us they won't reimburse a dime. Yes, we have a contract that says we get medical insurance, but so what? The college people will not discuss it with us.

So that's our story. We really don't want to return to the states, but we can't stay here without visas. Maybe we'll get another set of tourist visas to job hunt. But our resources are not unlimited, and our unreimbursed medical expenses have eaten into our reserves. We came here to teach, and that's really what we want to do.

Don't bother telling us how stupid we were. We know that. Just don't repeat our mistakes. And if you have any constructive suggestions, we'd love to hear them.

[ralph wiggim]

[kev7161]

Another lesson to be learned from this story. Get those ZEEEEE visas before you leave the comforts of your own home. If the school can't turn them into a Residence Permit within a month's time, then trouble is soon to follow. How did the OP know about Dave's ESL site? Surely you've read the reams of advice about laws and regulations?

DON'T come to China willy-nilly folks! DO come with plenty of pocket money. If you are shown a filthy and/or underfurnished apartment, tell the school you'll stay in a nearby hotel on their yuan until they can get those apartments up to living standards. If they school balks, luckily you've got those ZEEEEE visas and enough pocket money to find a job elsewhere or turn around and fly right back home.

People, people, people - - - these schools that don't greet you with open arms and show you to a nice, clean, modern-ish home, that don't show you around campus and introduce you to important staff, that don't show you where and how to get copies or textbooks or teaching supplies or . . . whatever . . . these are the schools you should run from right away.

And ask questions, questions, and more questions until you get satisfactory answers. Be aware newcomers: Many, MANY schools (esp. universities) that advertise they are in this city or that are very often on the outskirts of said city, some even further away. Definitely inquire about transportation venues and, if it smells fishy, arrange a twice a month school vehicle IN YOUR CONTRACT to take you into the city for your shopping needs. (Granted, some contracts are not worth much more than tissue paper you use to, well you know what!)

[ralph wiggim]

Kev you are bringing tears to my eyes with such Talmudic advice.

Its a shame so many people are just so openly trusting when coming to a new country to work.

On a seperate thread I gave advice on the FACT that the psb can cancel an RP without having it in their possesion but some people just have to learn the hard way.

To the poster there are better places to work in China and I hope you find one soon.

[North China Laowei]

[billwynne]

Gee whiz, I guess the qualifier about "don't bother telling us how stupid we were" just can't deter some of you from telling us how stupid we were.

To answer the inquiries from other posters:

-slept on the box spring sitting in our bedroom.

-I have 2 years college teaching experience, but neither of us had esl experience. We both have postgraduate degrees.

-We're in the process of getting F visas.

And to the relentless critics, a lot of the advice I read here and elsewhere indicated it was highly probable that the Z situation would have loosened up by now. And the college could have helped with F visas (not entirely legal, but it's done a lot), if they hadn't been flaming jerks. And sure, if there had been a hotel within 5 miles, maybe we could have insisted on staying there while our flat was cleaned up. I tried to check out this college on every esl site. No luck.

We didn't come in underfinanced. But we've spent a lot on medical care, and we may not be done. My wife has developed kidney stones, probably from tainted milk in the canned coffee. It's all fine and good (and not at all helpful) to tell us what we should have done, but when there's a language barrier and you're completely out of your element..

There was a post on this thread offering to hook us up with another school in GZ, but the post disappeared. You still out there?

[cj750nomad]

[kev7161]

I wasn't necessarily "scolding" the poster (okay, a little) but actually using his story as a good lesson for any other newcomers reading it to take heed.

But when I read a follow-up comment like this one:

[arioch36]

OP

[North China Laowei]

I absolutely DO NOT recommend working on a L visa and I am surprised, even shocked, that someone might have inferred that from anything that I have written.

End of story.

[cj750nomad]

[roadwalker]

OP you weren't stupid, just unlucky. Having said that, many of the problems you faced are NORMAL in a typical Chinese university: student levels can be terrible and unbalanced, classrooms are often dirty and unkempt as well as unheated and ill-equipped. Apartments range from wtf?? to very comfortable with a view. In almost any case, expect to do some scrubbing before settling in. Class sizes are often large, but maybe good compared to what the middle school teachers have reported.

The one aspect that any university should be able to do well is to get your residence permit in a timely fashion. Another is to get you the invitation packet for your z-visa. There was a significant hiccup for many teachers this fall (one colleague only recently arrived) but a university should be able to send to you in your own country the documents needed to apply for a z-visa. If not something is wrong with the school.

In general it really helps to go with the flow in China. On the other hand, if the housing isn't decent and/or too many promised items were illusory I wouldn't sign. Most of all, make sure they can take care of your legal status in China. Ask other foreign teachers if they have residence permits for example. If you haven't been able to contact a current foreign teacher that is a red flag. Good luck.

[sharpe88]

Wow that's horrible ! However I don't think adults would have gotten kidney stones from the coffee unless that's ALL she drank... almost all the babies who got stones were drinking milk and nothing else

[eddy-cool]

Someone (name irrelevant) said you can obtain a Zed visa through an AGENT, and this LEGALLY.

I question this claim; why would commercial go-betweens be allowed to take care of work visas in mainland China? I believe all these agents are crooks.

Having said this, I am sorry to read about the farcical welcome to China the OP got.

Maybe the medical cover is available only to those with a valid RP? Even so - never bank on Chiense health insurance cover!

[billwynne]

Thanks for all the comments. We wanted readers to know that we ultimately landed on our feet.

We went to Zhuhai for a TEFL class, and were hired by an excellent school here as we were finishing our class. Our foreign expert papers came through this week, and we can get our Zs in Macau. Apparently our school has a good relationship with the local foreign expert bureau.

Zhuhai is a beautiful, clean city, on the ocean, with a lot of foreigners. We like it here. Two hours to HK on the ferry, or walk across the border to Macau. After Guangzhou, it is paradise. Shirtsleeve weather in February.