Job Discussion Forums

[wildphelps]

I was just wondering if any of the users of this forum are aware of the decision made by the Ministry of Education earlier this academic year making English an obligatory subject for all primary school children?

I know the majority of the posters are more focused on the private language school job opportunities, but there are a few things about this decision that might be of interest to some:

1. Currently, there are not enough English teachers to meet the country's needs in the public sector. There will be an even bigger demand for English teachers next autumn. There will be no shortage of picking up hours (during the day) for those who need them.

2. Presently, the Ministry of Ed is playing loose with the qualifications needed - people with as little as an FCE or a certain TOEFL score are qualified to teach in a public primary school. I am sure CELTA certificates would also qualify one.

3. Working in a public school offers benefits:
- a guaranteed salary for 12 months (not 9-10 like in most private language schools)
- health insurance - even if one works half-time, the school is required to give you health insurance. That makes one a more attractive employee for the private language schools.
- the (possible) benefit of someone helping a newer teacher or person to Poland navigate Polish paperwork or even advocating for a teacher in certain situations/governmental offices.
- a great way to learn some Polish as you will be exposed to teachers of a variety of subjects. In a private language school, one typically only meets other language teachers. Let me tell you the teacher's room of a public school is great - a room full of educated people with common interests (education) and a relaxed atmosphere.

4. The Ministry of Ed just increased (significantly) the starting salary of teachers in public schools. When you factor in the insurance, it is competitive to working in a private language school (I'd say it is probably within 300-400 PLN a month for a full-time teacher [full-time is 18 hours a week]). The difference could easily be made up with teaching in a private language school or with private lessons.

There are more things to consider, but ask around about it. Ask Polish colleagues about some of these things - some people using this forum might be interested in this work option.

[maniak]

Yea, but youd have to teach Polish children.

[the new guy]

[wildphelps]

I think you misundersood me - the starting salary of Polish teacher is now approximately 2100-2200 PLN a month and that includes insurance. When I said 300-400 PLN, I meant that this amount was the difference between the two average salaries, public and private. And the wage increase went up in January of 2009 and was just distributed; my co-workers and I just recevied all of the backpay reflecting the pay raise.

I get my info from announcements from the Ministry of Education and newpapers. I work for two public colleges preparing people to become English teachers.

Back in the day I worked for JDJ and had nothing but grief from them. I find working for public schools preferable. The management style is different. I've never been stiffed on my pay. I have never had problems with worrying about whether I would have enough hours or where I had to go to hold lessons. When I taught in a high school, I never had to teach evenings or Saturdays (except for a few holiday make-up days). I got to tag along as a chaperone on several school trips, saw amazing places and got paid for it.

And Polish kids are not so bad - I do realize that not everyone likes teaching kids. But English lessons with young ones are not all grammar drills and exercises - they are games and vocab and songs. They can be fun.

I also forgot to mention the 13th month. Once one has worked for a full academic year in a school, he/she gets paid an extra month's salary.

[simon_porter00]

Fantastic idea - if you live in the sticks.

In Warsaw it really is not difficult to walk away with 6000zl per month. Why you would give up your time to teach little kids for peanuts in that instance I do not know.

[Harry from NWE]

[wildphelps]

I give up. You are all correct, and I apologize to you all for making a suggestion. In fact, I was a fool. A huge fool. Please forgive my foolishness. And thank you for pointing out the errors of my thinking.

I was a fool to suggest a possible alternative regarding health insurance and ZUS problems to the people who have been posting concerns about them all over this forum.

I was a fool to think that there were other people who use this forum living in a city of less than 200,000 people, or in other words, the "sticks."

I was a fool to suggest that a gross salary for 12 months of 22,000-23,000 PLN from a public school was comparable to a gross salary for 9 months of 24,000-25,000 PLN (based on the new guy's estimate of 2,750 PLN he makes a month) from a private school considering the other benefits.

I was a fool to think that language professionals might want to consider or even discuss the implications (for them and their field) of the government's decision making the language we teach an obligatory school subject for children.

I was a fool to think that lower-middle class and working class children should have any contact with a native speaker of English for free in their schools. Instead of working with them when they are young and can really learn something, let's all wait until they are older. They can then sign up for courses at our private language schools, where we can charge them if their parents can afford it, of course.

Please forgive me for my foolishness.

[Harry from NWE]

[simon_porter00]

Christ alive that man - calm down. Talk about throwing your toys out

[dynow]

i'm leaning towards Harry's side on this one.

if it was soooo important to have the Polish youth exposed to educated, professional native speakers, "show me the money".

what would you say to a friend who told you, "I'm going to country X to earn $500 USD per month, have a non-existent sorry excuse for an insurance plan, have to take several steps back in quality of life/lifestyle, leave my friends and family.......because I would really like these children to speak better English when they get older."

why is it that you can go to countries like sweden or denmark and everybody speaks beautiful english? because there, it's a priority. every country has a choice how to spend their money. Poland made theirs.

[Harry from NWE]

[Sgt Bilko]

I'm coming into this a bit late but are you sure about the qualifications? My wife is a state school English teacher. she needed an MA, a teaching qualification and a three year kolegium English course just to get on the first rung of the ladder. The qualifications needed seem to rise every year although, yes, it is easier to get a job out in the countryside than in Opole.

[hrvatski]

Just for the record Scandinavia also speaks beautiful English because they don't have dubbing on TV, the languages are not a huge jump to English and they are heavily absorbed in American and British pop culture.

[dynow]

it's true hrvatski, and i would like to add some things on to that.

the no dubbing on tv is a reflection of the "choices" those countries have made. routinely when i teach students from other parts of europe, they ALWAYS bring up the fact that they simply don't understand why there is a lektor speaking over everything. i haven't visited many countries in Europe but from what my foreign students tell me, they do not have a lektor on TV in their countries. again, it's a choice.

also, you listed the fact that they are heavily absorbed in british and american pop culture, but consider this: if Poland's youth spoke english as well as scandinavia's youth, they would naturally be more absorbed in english speaking cultures because of the simple fact that they can understand the lyrics in the songs, understand the dialogues on TV shows, hollywood movies, etc. etc. From what I see regarding the evolution of Poland, they desperately are trying to adopt and incorporate western culture into their culture but it just doesn't quite work due to cost issues and the simple fact that they need to speak english better to really "get it".

it still blows my mind when i see sign after sign, advertisement after advertisement in poland, written in grammatically terrible English, and it's generally an ad trying to be hip or ironic, but the simple fact that they can't get the damn english correct just ruins it. i mean seriously, can't they grab a native speaker before shelling out thousands and thousands to have the sign made up and ask, "is this correct?"

also, consider this: when people go to Scandinavia, they can walk around and speak english all day long and be comfortable. this = tourism and also means that Scandinavians can get to know foreigners and westerners first hand. they can get a real feel for the people, their culture, etc. When Brits, Americans, Aussies, etc. come to Poland, it's a different story.

it always cracks me up to find the young Polish guys that listen to American rap music and dress accordingly. hmmm....modeling yourself after a style of music performed by black urban americans, wearing baggy pants and a baseball cap. it's also worth noting that they are wearing a baseball cap with an american city on it and they have no idea how the game of baseball is even played.

[Glenlivet]