Job Discussion Forums

[JamRock]

I am a 30 year old male (I can't believe I'm 30 already, geez), black Jamaican citizen currently enrolled in a 100 hour TEFL certification program in NYC to be completed in June. I completed my bachelor's in Communications here as well. I have done some amount of research on the existing circumstances for black teachers in both Japan and Hong Kong. I'm interested in these countries because my research suggests that they are the most feasible if one wants to save money (student loans to pay). I know S. Korea may be at the top of the list for that but every opinion I've read suggests an alarming amount of racism. I know racism may exist everywhere you go but I at least want to minimize it. If I'm going to be living in a foreign country for 2 years, I'd like to enjoy it.

The many internet blogs/forums and articles I've read on Hong Kong generally seem to subscribe to the view that since the British left in '97, a good amount (not all) of the locals have become increasingly racist (or at least stopped concealing it) towards expats (blacks especially). If my research is skewed, someone please correct me. Although I've read accounts of blacks having a good time there, the bad seems to outweigh the good. I also know that every situation is what you make it but if I can avoid it before hand then why not?

Japan on the other hand, seems to generate a more inviting atmosphere, if you can get over the obvious staring. The accounts I've read suggest that Japan has a more accepting (yet scrutinizing) environment that is curious of foreigners rather than objectionable. I'm also aware that Japan has an increasing love for Jamaica's reggae music and culture. Racism exists of course but not more than you'd expect from anywhere else. Again, anyone can inject their own opinion here.

In terms of the money, I intend to live a frugal lifestyle while I'm there (not party every weekend and buy what I can't afford) but at the same time, I'm not a hermit. Therefore I'd like to enjoy myself every now and again while living near to or within a city. I know the rural areas are best to save but, I know myself and I'd just be miserable. Japan and Hong Kong seem to be on par with pay rates but it seems you get more for your money in Hong Kong - apartments, food, some kind of a life, etc., while Tokyo and Osaka are really expensive. Opinions welcome.

It's too late for the JET program in Japan but I've applied for the NET program (pays more) in HK. Generally, how willing are Japanese employers to provide visas and accomodation compared with HK employers?

Has anyone heard of or know of an experience with GABA or JALSS in Japan or have a suggestion for somewhere good to apply? GABA seems pretty good on paper. http://careers.gaba.co.jp/index.html

Thanks for the help.

JamRock

p.s. looking out for Glenski!

[RiverMystic]

As a black man you will have it a bit tough, but not worse than many other places. After all, there is a lot of discrimination against blacks in many countries. You will find it harder to get a job than a white person, generally speaking. Just how hard, I'm not sure. In the primary/secondary school NET scheme you could count the number of black people here on the fingers of one hand. They are WAY under-represented. I suspect its even worse in Chinese-managed cram schools and kindergartens.

The key is to get out there and SMILE. It works wonders. You'll still have it tougher than the pale-faces, but you'll feel good and change a few perceptions.

BTW, chances are nobody will sit next to you on the subway. I have never seen anyone sitting next to the black guys on the MTR system. I'm white, and I'm usually last pick, but people will still sit next to me.

[Yes Sir I Can Bogey]

It may be somewhat difficult for outsiders to begin to grasp the sheer extent of the intrinsic racism in HK; � it is simply unbelievable to those from progressive societies. I would go so far as to say that the term 'black teacher' would strike most if not all Hong Kong people as an obvious oxymoron. There are no effective anti-racism laws in HK and the government's recent anti-racism bill was overwhelmingly condemned by most if not all international bodies and watchdogs as itself being inherently racist.

This should not be taken personally, though. After all, they detest all outsiders � not just blacks � and even have contempt for their cousins next door on the Mainland, that is, the people from whom they are all (well, 99.9%) ultimately descended. Indeed, when you think about it, they don't even like each other � they certainly do not socialise in any Western sense, and can quite happily ignore and blank their neighbours of ten years every day on the landing and in the lift. In fact, it is not even at all clear whether they even like themselves, as is clearly evinced by their avoiding the sun like vampires (by using a hand, a newspaper, an umbrella, or a handbag) and buying tonnes of skin whitening products (even skin whitening shower gel!). Some even have injections and laser treatment to make their skin whiter.

The good news is that they don't express their deeply-held racist attitudes aggressively, and rarely if ever violently, as is the case in, say, England or Poland. The bad news is however that their beliefs will affect your chances of securing a teaching post, especially since an inordinate number of advertisements these days call for the candidate to enclose/attach a 'recent photograph' of themselves. A sadly all too common reason given for not employing blacks is that 'the parents wouldn't like it' (a classic old chesnut in HK) and/or that 'they would scare the children'.

Perhaps a personal anecdote will help. I was down at Chung King Mansions with a few HK people (former students of mine) a few weeks ago and they asked me how come the blacks there could speak English. I replied that, by the looks of it, they came from Nigeria and that English was an official language there and indeed is the language of education. To this said, 'Yes, but how come a black person can speak English?' It is still not entirely clear what they meant by this, but I think they still equate skin colour and genes with language and other forms of cognitive behaviour.

RM is quite right to say that locals rarely if ever sit next to a black person on the MTR, but I would go one further. I have actually seen HK people move away from blacks and Indians whilst at the same time making a big deal of holding their nose.

Anyway, the following should give you an insight into the levels of racism in HK:

http://app2.rthk.org.hk/pda/news/content.php?id=580299

[Marcoregano]

JamRock, if you spend any time on this forum you will find that Bogey almost always paints a gloomy picture. He will claim he is being realistic, but many on this forum disagree with his undiluted negativity.

I agree that racism is common in HK, I just don't think it's anywhere near as bad as he makes out. There is a sizeable population of most minority groups living in HK - whether black, brown or white - a fact which makes it one of the more cosmopolitan cities in Asia. Yes, black teachers are under-represented on the govt NET programme, but there are some, and I personally know two, both of whom have been here for 10 years, so they can't have found things so bad.

Many ignorant locals generally avoid sitting next to anyone on buses or trains who isn't obviously one of their own kind. But I don't mind - it means I get some space. And a big, big plus is that local racism very, very rarely (if ever) takes the form of the violent or threatening behaviour you might come across in other parts of the world.

Certainly, I wouldn't let HK's level of racism put you off coming here.

[oxi]

Hi,

I won't argue too much with what's been said already. I agree with most of it, but don't believe things are so terrible in HK. I've seen locals sit next to black people on the MTR. I've seen locals stand rather than sit next to black people on the MTR.

I'm afraid I don't know any black guys here. But I'm friends with many Indians, none of whom have talked of racism. Perhaps they just don't want to talk about it? I've met quite a few Indian yoga teachers who are hero worshipped by their students.

As Bogey said, it's mostly passive racism. People are more likely to avoid rather than confront you if they have issues. So, safer to be in HK than in Moscow or Alabama I'd imagine?!

I'd say the worst thing will be jobs. I've been told by locals they'd much rather have me with my white face than an Indian (although I have a slightly dodgy Scottish accent and one time I was being compared to a right, proper RP speaker). So I guess you will suffer that.

Overall, yep, there's racism. I think slightly worse than in most of Europe. Not as bad as many other places in Asia.

[kowlooner]

[Yes Sir I Can Bogey]

JamRock, if you spend any time on this forum you will find that Marco almost always paints an overly positive picture. He will claim he is being realistic, but many on this forum disagree with his undiluted rosy outlook.

Marco claims that "There is a sizeable population of most minority groups living in HK", but this is pure hogwash � pure unadulterated claptrap. For, as noted by Hodder in his 'The West Pacific Rim: An Introduction' (London, Belhaven Press, 1992, p. 98), the population of Hong Kong is "98 percent Chinese". That 'sizeable population' referred to by Marco then is actually but 2% of the overall population! Hardly sizeable by any definition (or by any stretch of the imagination). Furthermore, some 40% of that 2% are 'domestic helpers' (the current PC term in Hong Kong for 'present-day wage slaves'). You see, this is the false picture of HK which can be built up when one chooses to cocoon themselves in � and limit their movements to � predominately if not exclusively Western ex-pat/current prat areas such as Central/Soho/Lan Kwai Fong and Laaaah-ma Island.

[Yes Sir I Can Bogey]

[Marcoregano]

[Yes Sir I Can Bogey]

[Marcoregano]

[Yes Sir I Can Bogey]

[Yes Sir I Can Bogey]

[Marcoregano]

So you would rather have us believe Hodder, 1992?

And as usual Bogey, you leave most questions unanswered. I leave it to other members of the forum to decide who is closer to the truth.

Still, it appears you at least concede that the majority of those listed above are in fact genuine foreign residents ... a rare concession!

[kowlooner]