Job Discussion Forums

[housecattn]

I am very much interested in teaching ESL in Russia or the Ukraine


As I mentioned in another post in Newbies:

I am 56 with a BS in computer science, 25 years experience as a Systems Analyst. The last 15 have been in top 20 US Universities. I am currently an IT manager but I am not satisfied as I do not feel I am making a difference. With my position about to be reorged I have decided that it is time to consider new career options.

I am considering ESL as a serious career change not just a lark. Once I am in a position to do so I will take a CELTA course.

I have no traditional class room teaching experience but have taught in various environments and enjoy it very much. (presentations, programming language classes to co-workers, sunday school, etc.)

Is my background potentially useful in teaching either Business English, ESP of some sort or as a useful adjunct to a regular ESL teaching position?

I recognize that part of the world are difficult right now but that is where I want to be and wish to be as prepared as I can. I am certainly not looking to make much money but do want to make enough to live on.

Any serious advice is appreciated.


Thanks in advance.

[canucktechie]

Sure it will be of value if you are teaching people with a similar background. The question is whether this will be good enough to get you a job when you are being faced with competition from people who are already here. There is only one way to find that out and that's to apply. I can tell you though that the employment situation is the toughest that it has been for many years.

I just noticed that you said you have not taken the CELTA course yet. By the time you have done so it will be far too late to apply for a position in September. You would have to wait for the next hiring cycle in January IMHO.

What I would advise you to do is try to get some time off from your job to take the CELTA without quitting. This is not the time to be burning your bridges.

[coledavis]

I'm not disagreeing with Canucktechie, just offering a different slant. Firstly, be careful about the idea of 'making a difference'. People may appreciate your hard work and helpfulness, but just how much difference one makes to a society as a TEFL is debatable. In terms of appreciation, if you can find a job out here in the wilds (e.g. Siberia), then you are appreciated as a native speaker. There are jobs, but they take a bit of finding. If you haven't been to Russia before, you may do well to join one of the 'Macdonald'-type firms first, merely because they look after you (like sausage meat, I suppose). Then apply for the jobs in the wild and wackier places, perhaps. There is work. Even if you don't get into Russia at first go, there's China, I guess.

Re: the Business English idea: well, you will have rather more organisational experience than some younger entrants to TEFL.

Yes, experience of teaching others is useful, as you will probably get less stage fright on the CELTA. Also, this should go on your first TEFL application / CV. This combined with the CELTA might just give you a somewhat better job than the Macjobs on offer to most newbies. Although note again my point about culture shock if you're not someone with experience of Russia.

Re money to live on. The decent jobs, at educational centres (language schools), tend to mean free accommodation with a reasonable (but Russian) salary on top. University jobs may mean student digs and considerably less pay; although, ironically enough, you may need a masters in linguistics to get a university job!

[housecattn]

Thanks!!

Sadly getting time away is unlikely as the job will be gone before winter.

I do not anticipate making the September hiring season, perhaps January if applicable. I am currently doing the oxfordseminars course to get my feet wet and help me with the mental gear changing and perhaps give me a chance to do a little volunteer work here until i can go for the CELTA etc.

Would Sunday school teaching be relevant enough to add to my CV or will it hinder?

Out of my years of work I have been a technical lead/team leader/project lead over 15 years. Last 3 as the IT manager for a school in the university. I frankly have found the politics at his level to be a bit out of my comfort zone.

I do not expect to make a difference in the culture, I want a chance to maybe do so for some individuals. Several teachers made a profound difference in my life. If I can do a little of that for even a few people then I will have something to treasure.

I have finished raising my kids into pretty tolerable adults, I am single now and the need to do the serious wage earning thing no longer prevents me from doing something to give back.

Thanks again, Mike

[spiral78]

I dunno if I've mentioned that I worked 1) on a project with Russian students for Exxon for three years and 2) taught at LUKOil in Moscow, a 4-month intensive. I realize that's not extensive Russia experience, and bow to the much greater expertise of the regulars on this board, but I hope you won't mind if I throw in a couple of pennies, for whatever they're worth.

Would Sunday school teaching be relevant enough to add to my CV or will it hinder?

I vote 'hinder' on this aspect. Personal religion not being a given in this part of the world, and the predominant one not featuring Sunday schools, and considering the reputation of those Jehovah's Witnesses who push their religion in most major cities...I think the impression is more likely to be negative than positive. You are also likely to find yourself explaining what the heck it even is...and then facing (hopefully unspoken) judgements about whether it's a good idea in general.


I do not expect to make a difference in the culture, I want a chance to maybe do so for some individuals. Several teachers made a profound difference in my life. If I can do a little of that for even a few people then I will have something to treasure.

This is what makes the job for me. I find that what really does it in my teaching contexts are the fact that I genuinely respect my adult students for the professionals that they are (or will soon be, in my current university position) and see my role as to support their success. Giving both the language and the cultural keys they need to present themselves as the professionals that they are in English-speaking international contexts (by no means implying that their skills in Russian contexts are anything other than stellar, as they are!) has worked well.

Yeah, I've been invited back to Moscow

[housecattn]

Thanks again!

I was concerned that there might be confusion and/or negativity associated with the Sunday School thing. Especially since my denominational background is (Southern) Baptist which seems to have some rather difficult baggage in terms of people expecting closed minded, dogmatic, right wing attitudes to many people even here. I would like to think these do not apply to me 8^) and certainly would not wish create such a suspicion.

It is also one reason I am a bit leery of working as a volunteer with some missions related group. I think they do great work but I am hoping to be there for an extended period.

[spiral78]

It's not useful info, but I grew up in a staunch Southern Baptist family. I totally understand what this is about

I was personally overdosed as a child and teenager and have developed significant allergies to the religion ... but... your sensitivity to the possible concerns of posters on Dave's augurs well for your sensitivity when it comes to relating to adult students whose religious beliefs are mostly going to be very different, and probably far more privately-held, or even non-existent... people in this part of the world are often quite suspicious of those who are perceived as pushing any kind of religion at all...in my experience

[housecattn]

Thank you for that. I try. I think religion is a very personal thing and I never have found any justification for trying to force any part of what I believe on someone else. I can certainly understand theological allergies 8^)

You have been very helpful and I look forward to further exchanges.

[coledavis]

Yes, religious affiliation is a problem here. It's not to do with being right-wing, however, as there is a fair amount of that here in Russia! But people are rather sensitive about evangelism, which they see as intrusive. Again, I agree with other people that your sensitivity - and your receptiveness to replies - augur well. Also, a January start might not be a bad thing: I rather think that some schools may sit on their hands until they see what the recession does to their new September intake. Assuming that native speakers still have some 'pull', this might be realistic. In the meantime, try to find a good course to go on.

[rusmeister]

A brief on religion here - evangelizing (even putting Sunday School on your resume poses this risk) by westerners is now a big no-no. Most people feel that they are already evangelized despite the 70-odd years of enforced atheism (although I imagine we might both question that perception), but the fact is there already is an established Christian Church here (Orthodox) and there is very little of the western perspective that there ought to be lots of (different) faiths. That there are different faiths is given, - which is why they throw the term "multi-confessional country" around; but what is meant by that is generally, in addition to Christianity (which is perceived as Orthodox-only), you have Judaism, Buddhism, Islam... but most Russians see only that one Christian faith to be valid, and therefore that there is no need to import the thousands of denominations that exist in the West.

If anyone thinks you have intent to do evangelizing, especially the authorities, your school or neighbors, you are liable to be railroaded out - or never let in. If ESL were merely a means to doing the work that your faith calls for, I'd say it's a bad way to go about it.

I know a couple of Pentecostals and they are reluctant to even admit that they are Pentecostal. I had to ask them broadside to get them to admit it to me.

All that said, it just seems to me a very bad idea for someone of your age and experience to go career ESL at this time - or if you did, you ought to get certification and set up in the States or the UK, say, at a community college. Submitting yourself to the sub-minimum wages and treatment of the McSchools is insane. I wouldn't want to repeat my path at my age. I got in in my twenties and was teaching by 30, at a time when it was much easier to do so.

[housecattn]

Rusmeister,

Thank you very much for this information. I had some concern about this which is why I asked about putting the Sunday School on my resume. It is very good to have this perspective.

I do not consider ESL a way to do missions work. If I did I would volunteer through of of the faith based groups that have various programs in the region. I hope I have not written anything that would make you think I was only interested in ESL and Russia as some sort of mission project.

I am interested in the language and the culture, not trying to change it. My interest in making a difference is not from any religious motivation.

Thank you for you advice concerning a transition to a career in ESL at this time. I do appreciate it and will certainly take it under consideration.

[canucktechie]

[housecattn]

Thanks Canucktechie

I understand. And I am NOT looking to create any minefields for myself, or anyone else for that matter.