Job Discussion Forums

[Mr. Mead]

Hi all,
I've been an avid (albeit hidden) reader of this forum for many moons and only a recent (and cautious) poster. Now I call upon your collective wisdom to sort out my KSA conundrum.

The English departments at KAU and KSU/Bell are both cumbersome and undergoing further expansion with this coming academic year. In fulfilling such massive hiring quotas, it's evident that their hiring standards have dropped - after all, they both made me an offer . I always had the impression Saudi universities would draw the line at 5 years experience and an MA, and I fulfill neither.

That said, faced with these two choices, which is a better choice (or lesser of two evils)? Bear in mind, KSU's provisional offer was nearly 2,000 SAR higher than KAU's, putting it in a salary bracket more in line with what I had expected (i know, say what you will here) to receive in Saudi.

KSU/Bell
Pros:
Higher salary, more transparent hiring process (much contractual info is available online with the provided login password)
Cons:
Just about everything else - location, provided/shared accommodation, 11 month contract, unpaid overtime

KAU
Pros:
Location, 12 month contract, 500SAR/mo. transportation allowance (KSU may have something similar), housing stipend (albeit paltry)
Cons:
The highly rumoured, uncompensated six day work week, recent overhaul in department's management

I've read and reread the threads here. Most comments extensively bash both. Nevertheless, it's looking like it's one or the other for me until I get more experience. Of the two, which one do the veterans here recommend?

[Cleopatra]

[balqis]

For me surely Jeddah because of first and foremost Jeddah, and KAU because you are recruited by the university, well reputed university in Arabia, not by a money-making - and milking your labour to the limit - agent.

In my opinion the contract offered by Bell is very bad, with many shadowy areas. For example the housing issue one wouldn't like to touch even with a barge pole. Whoever has ever seen the old K.S.U. campus in Riyadh for the KSU ''proper Professors'' will immeidately see the status of teachers contracted by Bell and co.

Also, with KSU there is more than just Bell who recruit you. There is someone like an intermediary agent involved too.
As is well known from post-war social science responsibility is best dissolved in a number of intermediary chain-link-bodies involved. It simply ceases to exist. In the end you wind up with no face you can talk too or buttonhole, and with no real body ready to take the brunt. You are just left with the heaps of the brunt and steadily mounting frustration.

What a shame KSU has resigned their ESL programme to various money-making agents. It is always a regressive move for a unievrsity to do so.

balqis

[Citizenkane]

[Chthon]

From what I have seen, there is a general move amongst public universities in Saudi Arabia towards both large preparatory year programs in which students from various faculties are bombarded with English and some other subjects, and toward outsourcing English programs to private establishments. I know of a few in the Kingdom that have just made or are about to make this move; there may be even more beyond that.

[Citizenkane]

I see the above trend as being detrimental to the status of EFL teachers in KSA.

Not only will outsourcing make it harder for teachers to solve the problems and issues which arise, universities will feel little or no responsibility towards ESL staff. Also, the establishment of quasi-independent PYP programs will increase the perception that ESL teachers are not really a part of the university. Even though they may have MAs and other high qualifications, they will be seen as adjunct staff not on a par with 'real' academic faculty.

[Chthon]

[veiledsentiments]

[theinquiringmind]

Veiled sentiments:

It is me, theinquiringmind.

I asked you 2 years ago about going to AUC or AUB for my masters. You told me AUC, and in hindsight I think you were correct. I just graduated from AUC on Tuesday.

You just posted here, but didn't express your opinion on the King Saud/ King Abdulaziz controversy. What do you think? I have the same dilemma. I have to decide which to accept. I am trying to balance money and lifestyle in my decision.

I will be married next week (to an Egyptian woman) and need to take her into account. I am looking to teach in the Gulf for at least 5 years. What do you think?

[veiledsentiments]

Mabruk on that new MA. (and the new marriage!) I gave no opinion on the Saudi universities because I only know what I read here... and personally I wouldn't consider either of them. (how was that for not being particularly helpful)

The first job with a new MA can be difficult. You might apply to QU in Qatar. One of AUC's graduates from last year went there, and it is a decently paying option that will give a slightly better lifestyle than Saudi. (IMO...)

VS

[Citizenkane]

[veiledsentiments]

I wasn't comparing the systems, but the attitude towards MA holders teaching foundations courses... second class citizens in education in both parts of the world.

VS

[Chthon]

[roy_101]

I think the KSU deal would be better if the teachers were given the option of either housing allowance or provided accommodation.

At the moment, the impression I am getting is that they will always insist that teachers stay in the accommodation because it's the cheaper option for the project managers.

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who can contradict me on this issue and who has actually been afforded the housing allowance.

Surely not every teacher under the Bell initiative is in their provided accommodation.

[Never Ceased To Be Amazed]