Job Discussion Forums

menso35 · Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 51

I would say at least 50% of schools I have been in contact with wanted me to work on an L visa. Screw that! If TEFL in Asia weren't so corrupt it would almost be laughable. These turkeys expect me to fly over on my own dime and just trust them that things will be fine and dandy even though they are asking me to break the law? I could just imagine getting settled in, making some friends, etc, then having the rug pulled out and having to return home, again on my own dime.

I am thinking that a lot of employers will use this tactic so that if you arrive and are 400 pounds heavier than your picture or just a total nebbish they can tell you to get lost with no repercussions.

sharpe88 · Joined: 21 Oct 2008 Posts: 226

Actually, far greater than 50% of teachers in China are working without 'proper' credentials.

The situation is tolerated as there are not enough teachers.

Teatime of Soul · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 905

It is tolerated until, sporadically, it isn't. You can read the posts on these forums of these sent unexpectedly packing.

Weigh the facts, and the risks, and choose well.

eddy-cool · Joined: 06 Jul 2008 Posts: 1008

MOD EDIT

Of course, many a tourist finds provisional 'employment' as a stand-in or a figurehead for a while, illegally, only to be ditched most unceremoniously, and possibly with dramatic and unpleasant side-effects.
The legit positions are not as numerous as the published ones.

vikuk · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 1842

It's especially difficult for non-native speakers who have poor writing skills. Some of them have been here for years - yet their careers are still floundering at step 1 of the Chinese EFL ladder Idea

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

Menso, Whatever you have been smoking, pass it around. Your post is one of the few that have a realistic view of the situation here. Few people can even imagine the deviousness of many "employers." They think nothing of hanging a laowai out to dry.

menso35 · Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 51

I am a native speaker with a BA, TEFL, and experience. My phone hasn't exactly been ringing off the hook with job offers. My point was that I thought it was pretty crazy how these "schools" expect a person to fly over at their own expense and then violate the immigration laws of a sovereign country. I called a few of them out on this. They basically said, "Don't worry, we've got your back. People do it here all the time". I am sure if I got thrown in the clink and deported they would be with me the whole time offering emotional support.

If the job market is so great in China, I certainly don't see it. All I have been seeing are punitive, one sided, low ball contracts that are not even fit for wiping one's arse with.

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

Lots of schools have asked me the same. Although if you DO go on an L visa, make sure you know about the school. I'd rather go on an L visa with a school I know about, have friend there, or have heard about on the forum, than one that I have no idea about.

The Ever-changing Cleric · Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 1523

Hansen · Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 737 Location: central China

OP, Punitive is a good word to use as you did. In general, doing business here is doing business with an enemy. Most of these people are not friends of foreigners. They are interested in English, not the people who speak it.

I read an article profiling a Chinese American business woman in an American newspaper. The article told how she, after a long period of negotiation, while the guy with whom she was bargainning was at the airport, scrapped the deal they had agreed upon and suddenly hiked up her price, thinking that he had to agree or return with no deal, which was crucial to his company.

The article offered this story to illustrate her business acumen, possibly suggesting that she was a formidable business woman. I recognized it as the common deviousness of Chinese in business, something done here all the time.There is nothing admirable about a person who wants to gouge her customers. It's despicable.

If you think the contracts are bad, even the things promised by the contract are often not provided.

There are many benefits to being in China. The business climate for an FT is not one of them.

China.Pete · Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 547

"The situation is tolerated as there are not enough teachers." -- Sharpe

You could say, not enough teachers for the pay and working conditions being offered (such as, no residence permit).

tashidelek · Joined: 03 May 2009 Posts: 23 Location: beijing

Welcome to china! It seems like working illegally, but there�s no trouble for both teachers and schools, that�s why you can see many people are working �illegally� here. Don�t worry too much, you are safe.

clayuk · Joined: 08 Mar 2009 Posts: 6

If you want your teachers on Z visa's in China, the school would have to start paying taxes. Everybody in Yangshuo is on a F Visa, because the schools don't want to pay taxes.

Its all about money.

xiao51 · Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 208

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

it surely is all about money and that�s probably the main reason why the situation is tolerated。there�re all kinda fts with all kinda characters too。ch-employers know there�ll always be a willing foreign face to work for their shite contracts with all kinda unclear or demanding clauses with the lowest salary offers possible。for ch-employers， the best fts are the ones that can�t read well or understand some contractual agreement clauses and the worst ones are the ones that want to go over or negotiate many contract clauses。

china�s flooded with unpro employers that know little or nothing about education。 and， getting a business license here is just so easy for people with money or connections。in recent years， chinese english teachers are taking over our jobs anyway。 having any qualifications whatsoever is quite useless in my schools/centers。

OP， if you seek a post on mainland， it is essential to find out what the school/center�s academic program is and what they really teach。you�ve got to know what your role is to be。any academic program should have a goal and once the program�s carried out your should have a say on whether the goal is achieved or not。 you do not want to come to classrooms for meaningless classes。and， for gods sake， make sure where you�ll teach， since some employers seem to make their fts �teach and travel� or shall i say �travel and teach� around。

having said that above， we should only teach programs the schools/centers have their licenses for and we should only teach in places where they sign legal contracts with our employers。 and above all， we should make sure our work permits are Z visas or RPs for work。if an employer cannot get that permit for ya， he/she does not have an appropriate license to run the academic programs we are to teach。

cheers and beers to our veiws on what�s legal or illegal