Job Discussion Forums

[shmooj]

If you answered Japan you are wrong. If you don't know why you need to have some semantic categories rearranged.

This is a good example of how communication depends so very much on schema theory - ie background knowledge of culture, the situation and so on.

The Japanese flag is a sun on a white background. The sun in Japan is represented as red, not orange or yellow. The sun is a star.

Just been to a lecture by Dr. John Fanselow which was very challenging.

[naturegirl321]

So what's the correct answer?

[shmooj]

You tell me...

[naturegirl321]

Somalia has one. China, five. NZ, don't know

[Wolf]

Heh. Sorry Shmooj, but I thought of the "probably not Japan, as the snarky among us might go on about how the sun is a star" angle right away.

Also, this is kinda easy to cheat on what with Google's image search feature open in another browser.

Somalia - 1
New Zeland - 6
China - 5
Japan - 0

I'm betting that the Japanese who origionally chose the rising sun emblem probably didn't realize that the sun was a star. As an image (in poetry, painting, etc) the sun and stars get considered differently. And to our senses they appear different.

Besides, if the snark factor is present (without which Japan clearly wins) it's a tie between Japan and Somalia anyway. For the uber-snarky, shouldn't a country with no stars in its flag take its place, like Tanzania?

[shmooj]

Exactly Wolf. It's a trick question but the majority of people here will answer Japan because they do not see a red circle as the sun. Japanese would though they might not think of it as a star because generally we do not associate the Sun as a star unless we think about it.

There are huge implications for language learing here. I'll unpack them a bit when the sun is actually shining. .... .yawnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[shenyanggerry]

It depends on which definition of star you use. In the scientific sense, we all know that the sun is a star. In the non-scientific world, which is where most of us live, stars are lights in the sky that come out at night.

[lajzar]

When counting objects on flags, we shouyld use teh vexology (sp?) definition of a star, which means a particular 5-pointed stylised shape in this case. So, while that red circle may indeed be a representation of the sun, in flag terminology, it is not a star.

[psychedelic]

Hi Shmooj,
Cool idea. How's life in Japan? Can you tell me about the lecture by Dr. Fanselow? Happy New Year!

Thanking you,
Larry

[James_T_Kirk]

[shmooj]

Dr. Fanselow is a master at asking questions that make us think about how we think.

The issue we were discussing was vocabulary categories and how, to a Japanese learner of English, the word orange would not be associated with the idea of "sun" as a ENglish learner of Japanese would not associate the Japanese flag with an image of the sun.

The issue is not the poll question people so no need to split hairs about that. The issue is one of schema theory i.e. ways we categorise and make sense of the world.

As a professor of Linguistics, Fanselow was applying this to language learning and in particular how guessing (a vital language skill) can be swayed by expectations based on cultural issues (such as the colour red and the sun and the image of a circle as a star). Because of this, a student in a listening exercise may guess something completely off the teacher's map but perfectly logical to the student. The teacher, unless they are sensitive to this and willing to learn themselves, may not realise the source of error and thereby fail to help the student progress beyond it .

If we as language teachers do not attend to these categories and understand cultural elements associated with what we teach, we will fail to help our students understand the pitfalls that they face with, in particular, cross-cultural communication.

One question I wanted to ask him at the end of the lecture which I couldn't was, "Does this mean we must teach culture in the language classroom?" Never had time for questions.

[Sherri]

Shmooj
I used to work with Dr Fanselow on various projects at my old school. We shared the same building with Columbia Teacher's College. That was a few years ago though! I know a conversation with him will leave you with lots to think about. I learned so much from him.

Did he tell the "mass starvation" story in his lecture?
Sherri

[shmooj]

Nope. What's that?

Is it relevant to this or worth a new thread?

[Sherri]

Not worthy of a new thread. The point he was trying to make was that no matter how hard we try as teachers to make our students understand what we are on about, we can never be fully confident that everyone is on the same page--that is the teacher and the students. The example was a colleague who was lecturing in South Korea on mass starvation around the world. He knew that the people attending the lecture would have trouble following what he was saying because he would be speaking in English, so he made up a text version of his lecture with an outline. He talked about the social problems that arose in places where mass starvation was taking place, how dangerous it was to young people, the potential health problems etc, how it should be stopped. He saw people nodding in agreement in the audience. It wasn't until question time came up that he realized the terrible misunderstanding of the people in the audience--they thought he was talking about masterbation! Imagine!--well I thought it was a very funny story and did teach me a lesson.
S

[Mike_2003]

Surely a flag of any country would burn up as soon as it came anywhere near a star.

Obviously the question was referring to the pattern of a star rather than a really star. Is a circle a star pattern?