Job Discussion Forums

Gingerbread · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 3

Hello!

My family, my husband, two kids (4 and 2 yrs old) and I, is planning to move to Hanoi this Aug. Currently we are living in Qatar, but the harsh enviroment and sky-rocketing cost of livin made us to consider moving back to SE Asia. What concerns me is that (we have lived in Thailand for nearly 8 years) most websites have conflicting "Cost of living in Vietnam" price quotes.

For example, one website said a bowl of noddle soup on a street vendor will cost about 7,000 to 10,000 VND while another will put 25,000 to 30,000 VND for it.

When we lived in Thailand, we frequently ate at street vendors and local restaurents: in that way, we ate rather well without breaking a bank. However, as we are new to Hanoi, even though we believe some prices in Hanoi would be similar to those in Thailand, we cannot help being worried about how much everything cost.

I would highly appreciate your help: really what is the "Current cost of living in Hanoi?"

Thanks for everyone in advance,,,

Worried Mom in Doha,,,

asia0708 · Joined: 03 Dec 2008 Posts: 32

1 usd = 17,500 VND

Bowl of Pho Bo - beef noodle soup = 20,000 minimum and thats from a low class streetside eatery. They do not really have street side vendors here, rather they turn the ground floor of their house into a cafe. They are not particularly clean. If you want super clean - go to Pho24 and they charge about 30,000 I think (and the food is even more bland than on the streets).

Typical Pho Bo (beef noodle soup) is not very tasty and they put in a few measily strips of beef with bland muddy water. Their idea of cooking their beef is to submerse it in hot (usually not boiling) water for about 30 seconds. More often than not, it comes out rare. However, the noodles here are good - not the thin glass noodles or mamaii noodles you normally get in Thailand, but a fresh? moist rice noodle.

And if you go for Pho Ga (chicken version) you will find the chicken is not cooked from fresh, rather chopped off the carcass that has sat for a few days in the unrefrigerated glass cabinet.

In the South (HCM and Vung Tau) they have Bho Kho (stewed beef noodle soup which is a lot more tasty, proper big chunks of beef with a well spiced and tasty sauce. The sauce is so good people often eat the dish with a baguette instead of noodles. I have never found this in Hanoi (but I do not go in expensive/tourist type restaurants).

If you come here you will miss Thai food for sure. There, it is so easy to get steamed rice + meat/veg stir fried (sweet sour/black pepper/oyster/etc) for 25 - 30 bht. LESS than a dollar.
If you are lucky enough to find somewhere that does similar dishes it will cost upward of 40,000 (over double thai price) and sometimes the portion size is too small.

Hope that answers your question. I don't mean to rant, but food is an important experience of living abroad for me - and in my opinion, Hanoi sucks. I would say I have lost 20-30 pounds in recent months because it is so bad, that sometimes I just don't bother eating. I usually only eat rice dishes in Asia, but here I am forced to eat that noodle c**p.
And if anyone replies 'how good pho bo is' then either you haven't lived in Thailand, or, you have a memory problem.

So are you here already or considering it? Other things to worry about :
1) Noise - unless you get a 10th story + serviced appartment you are going to have problems sleeping (it will cost you). It is the most noisy city in SE Asia.
2) Viets are the least friendly people in SE Asia. OK, so bar staff are full of (false) smiles, but when you walk out the bar without tipping, you soon see that smile drop off their face.
3) Ripped off on transport - get your own scooter or these moto guys will drive you nuts
4) Dual pricing - Viets think they can charge up to 3-4 times on things to a foreigner. They think everyone is a tourist. I give them one chance to get the price right, if not, I turn and walk away while they shout after me lower prices. That's my favourite past time in this city. Bitter? You bet (and it's not only me - a few months ago there was a thread here about living in hanoi, and 90% of people had nothing nice to say about the place).

Gingerbread · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 3

Hi, Asia 0708

Thank you for the information. I was told that inflation in Vietnam has been very high for last couple of years: however, the general price in Vietnam seems much higher than that in Thailand.

Is it possible for you to tell me of your monthly expensis? My husband was offered US$ 2,000 per month and I am not sure whether it is enough for us. Of course, I will work as well but for the first month or so, I need to take care of the kids to settle in the new country..

Again, thanks for the updates!

asia0708 · Joined: 03 Dec 2008 Posts: 32

2000 dollar per month is well above average for Vietnam so you should be fine. A lot of teachers only get 1200-1500 full time, whereas DOSs can get 3,000+

Monthly expenses :

450 private 1 bed/1 living room apartment (incl cost of elec bill/internet access)
70 scooter hire and gas
150 food - always eat out apart from breakfast sometimes

Entertainment
There is a cinema with the new speaking movies in English for 3 bucks
Beer 12,000 to 30,000 VND (streetside bar to modern bar)

Look on newhanoian site before you come and arrange to see property within days of arrival. Staying in a hotel too long may put you off the place. Most expats stay around west lake area - but if your school is not close expect bigger transport costs (1-2 dollar motorbike depending on distance).
For a 2 bed place, clean/quiet/OK area expect to pay 600 without the 50 dollar bills.

mickeyrex · Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 65

No -2g isn't enough to live on for a a family of four if your're thinking about eating out everyday. Buy in bulk, learn the recipes (find a friend) and cook for your family. Otherwise, you're going down a black hole. Pho (not crap), in Saigon now costs about 16K in a hood (been there, speak Vn?) a bowl. You've got a lot of cooking to do. Vietnam isn't fantasy land. Wishing you the best.

inky · Joined: 05 Jan 2009 Posts: 283 Location: Hanoi

Ginger, coming from the ME and returning to SEA will be a delight for you. There are many, many ex-pats in Hanoi who are more than happy here, and many who would never think of leaving. The place isn't always a good fit, but as long as you have a positive attitude and minimize your time in the tourist areas, you'll find Hanoians to be wonderfully warm and welcoming.

For a family of four, with two very young children, your $2000/month might not be enough. You'll be taking taxis, not motorbikes (I hope), and feeding four people, and your children's nutritional needs will take precedence over saving a few dollars. You'll want a safe, quiet residence ($600+/mo?). You may need a housekeeper or babysitter. These things are going to add up.

Asking what's the cost of living doesn't always work, because it is in fact quite easy for a teacher on his/her own to live comfortably on $1200/mo, but your situation is very different. I would recommend arriving here with a few thousand extra, even if your husband is starting work right away.

asia0708 · Joined: 03 Dec 2008 Posts: 32

Yes, I agree with previous poster about a family of four.

But I assume you are going to do something yourself in terms of work??
Childcare here is not like the west - where it often pays the mother to stay at home and look after kids rather than work.
I am pretty sure a trustworthy nanny could be found for a low wage, leaving you to do kindy 'teaching' or something - maybe even part time. Often no quals are required - besides, you have real life experience of changing nappoes and babysitting!
Kindy teaching is sometimes the highest paid type in Vietnam.

Yes, if you don't work it could be tough. No matter how much inflation has gone up in Qatar, any teaching job in the middle east is going to be a lot better paid than Vietnam.
Inflation here is about 20%. And forget any current deflation, Viets have no comprehension of prices going down - especially if you are a foreigner.

If you are worrid about money but want to come to Asia, consider Korea and Taiwan.

inky · Joined: 05 Jan 2009 Posts: 283 Location: Hanoi

asia0708, am I correct that you've been in Hanoi for about a month, or did I misunderstand when I answered some of your May '09 arrival questions?

jayasia · Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 65 Location: Isaan

any costs you incur monthly, please add 20-30% to the final total.
this will be the blatent overcharging on absolutely everything you will ever need.

the northeners are past masters at this practice.
in fact, the southerners have learnt this dark art from the northeners!

i have visited hanoi twice with friends. they've lost their money n passports...etc

be prepared for a warm and friendly welcome, this is when the scams kick in, when ur thinking what lovely people ....not!

Gingerbread · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 3

Dear all

Thank you so much for your insights and supports. I know you took your time off to answer back to my silly questions, and appreciate your considerations to a total stranger like myself.

I will definately looking for a job once I settle the kids: I hold a teaching license from the School District of Philadelphia, BA degree, on my way to Master's and years of teaching experience including teaching experience in the US. Just that I am Asian and I was told that it is hard to get a job in Vietnam with Asian face!

Again, thanks to all!

Logan's Run · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 3

Sorry if I missed this in your posts, Gingerbread.

How old are your kids? I presume they arn't in school yet.

I too, am thinking of Hanoi to teach, as I taught in HCMC in the past.

BenE · Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Posts: 321

MOD EDIT There are quite a few people here that enjoy Hanoi even with the power cuts, Xe om drivers and sometimes questionable Pho.

A lot of the ripping off that you talk about can be resolved by just learning a bit of Vietnamese. You'll be amazed how quickly the prices drop like a stone when you actually show you live here.

I haven't just arrived I have my job here and I have my place to live. I also pay less for food than you quote. Maybe you should try leaving the old quarter now and then.

As for noise my apartment only has motorbikes going past around 8ish during rush hour and then things go quiet. It's silent at night. I pay $220 a month, not $600.

I find the people really warm and welcoming and I'm taken aback by how often people want to help me out for nothing once I know them.

Hanoi is what you make of it and it can be quite tough especially now that it's hot but it has everything I need and more as well as cheap food and drink and friendly people. It's really what you make of it.

asia0708 · Joined: 03 Dec 2008 Posts: 32

I worked in HCMC for 6 months during 2005.
I worked in Hanoi for 3 months from Nov 08.
I started my new contract May 08.
So yeah, maybe not that long in Vietnam.

I do not live in or spend much time in the Old Quarter. At present I share a flat with my girlfriend. The costs I mentioned are not from the Old Quarter. The flat is very nice, the standard that a western family would expect.

Yes, I know the language always helps. I learnt basic Indonesian and Malay when I was there and it made a difference, but Vietnamese is a different matter.

I have lived or worked in six Asian countries and if I want to say Vietnam is the worst place - I can say it! I did like HCMC and have fond memories of being there. As to why I don't move on - not easy with the girlfriend situation. I want to wait until she finishes her contract.

Negative opinions should be able to be expressed here - without people criticising those opinions. Add to thread, not the comment. Every Asian country is different, including Hanoi vs HCMC, and those thinking of working here should be aware this is not the Land Of Smiles (in MY opinion).

inky · Joined: 05 Jan 2009 Posts: 283 Location: Hanoi

Negative opinions, yes. Racist comments, no. Making sweeping generalizations about "Viets" is racist. And ignorant. "Viets are the least friendly people in SE Asia." 83 million people, you've met each one of them.

lost_gypsy · Joined: 09 Apr 2004 Posts: 274

After I read Asian0708's statement, "I have lived in SIX Asian countries..." I began to scratch my head. Hmmmm....

OK, let's begin:

China
Japan
Korea

...........thinking..........

oh

Vietnam (of course)

..........................thinking........................

uh

Thailand

.............................................thinking................ blip ......

I give up. Out of those five, I suppose Vietnam would appear "worse". Although it is my opinion that you shouldn't really compare them, because they all have their unique qualities. Oh, and I haven't been to any country except China, so I am ignorant and partial. I plan to go to Vietnam this fall.

Cheers!

Michael