Job Discussion Forums

[denise]

Nomadder's recent thread about job ad turn-offs got me thinking... what about later in the application process? Imagine you see a school that looks moderately interesting, you submit all of the proper application documents, etc. What clues are there that it might not be the best place to work? Here are some instant turn-offs for me:

1. this has been mentioned a few times--a school that does not let you contact its current or past teachers--what are they trying to hide?

2. a school that tries to regulate your personal life--e.g., providing housing but not allowing guests (especially overnight guests--but one fairly large school/company in Japan, I believe, states NO GUESTS) Yeah, I know "overnight guests" might be a culturally sensitive issue in some parts, but personally, I could not stand such control over my life--guess I'd better just avoid those parts.

3. a school that is willing to hire you without an interview--e.g., you get an email saying something like "we have looked over your materials, and we should have a position for you..."

Any others?

d

[Gordon]

4. Any schools that withold part of your pay until the end of your contract, to keep you from jumping ship midway trhough your contract.

5. Schools that insist on hanging onto your passport. I think Saudi employers insist on this, but everywhere else they shouldn't have it.

6. When they say they will provide housing, but will never give you any info about it.

[foster]

The not allowing you to contact current or past teachers is a BIG one.

[struelle]

[shenyanggerry]

[shmooj]

I think we also need to bear in mind two more factors:

how blind we can be to these warning signs when we really want the job.

what we see but are willing to overlook when we really want the job.

After all, who would apply for a job they didn't want to get, and how many jobs out there display no warning signs at all?

[Wolf]

Warning signs? Depends on what you want to be warned of. There are some things that I might find intolerable that others don't care about. There are other things that maybe I don't think of that would be unbearable to others.

Maybe those of us who are All We Can Be can correct me here, but I believe the military (I think US military) as an "assume the worst" policy in its on-the-field decision making process.

Good one to have.

1. Do they refuse to get you a visa, or they jerk you around on details about getting you a visa? They should know how, and be willing to tell you about it. If you want ot work without one, fine. But remember, the worst case here becomes "deportation." I got work visas with minimal effort; it's just not worth working illegally, in my opinion.

2. Do they answer your questions to your satisfaction? If they have nothing to hide, they shouldn't be vague. If they're used to hiring foreign EFL teachers, they should be used to such questions. Worst case here becomes some of the more interesting horror stories on the Job Information Journal (speific stories there I wonder about, but I've seen enough to know that generally such things can happen.)

3. Will they show pictures of any provided accomodation? And are you happy with it? Personally, I don't want to share accomodation anymore. In spite of my military analogy, I didn't join the army. Even rural schools in the interior of China have scanners nowadays. There is no technical reason why schools could not comply with such a wish. Worried the pictures are fakes? Then ask to contact teachers already there. Contact more than one. Once again, worst case scenario is a really, really substandard place to live.

4. Does the person with his/her finger on the button speak English? Speak Engish but pretend not to? Send a lacky who speaks English but has no power to change anything to deal with you? That last point is one I experienced. A favorite negotiation tactic of my old company was for senior management to send someone who spoke Enlgish but had no power to negotiate (BTW that's illegal where I was, but hey.) Ask the current teachers about this, as there is no other way to really find out. Please note that if the owner/button pusher's level of Enlgish being low is only a warning sign. I know of companies that are good places to work where the owner can't really speak English. It's just a warning sign. Worst case: boss makes all decisions without consulting you. On matters that include schedules, number of lessons taught, contract changes, etc.

5. In countries where foreigners can join unions, does the school have a policy forbidding such action? Usually such an order by an employer will be illegal as well, and that's a strong indication that your employer doesn't want you to have any legal protection for a good reason: (ie they tend to break the law regarding you.) Think what you will about unions. But I don't think most of us would be willing to forgo our rights in our home countries because our boss asked us to. This one definately qualifies as a warning sign. Worst case: contract violations.

6. Is your boss willing to give you a contract? I interviewed at the world-famous Berlitz a few years ago, and they didn't want to give me a contract. That's right; they didn't want to give me sponsorship or legal protection in a country where I was an immigrant and everything is harder for me anyway. Feh. Worst case scinerio is they work you to the bone and not pay you, or claim you don't work for them, or reduce your hours to the point where you can't support yourself. Also, remember to get everything that they promise you down in writing, signed and sealed. A good employer who knows Western business practices (and they really should if they're going to hire people from the West) will understand this. They owe you nothing, as you have no relationship with them in writing (and if it isn't in writing, it doesn't exist.)

7. They lie to you about something during the interview process. Number of students at the shcool, nature and condition of living accomodations, salry, visa sponsorship, etc. A little lie now could very well mean a big lie later. Don't have too much sympathy for "mistakes" (read: lies.) A company that can't even get right number of classes per week you'd be teaching on the first try would be too incompetant to be worth working for anyway, even if they weren't lying. Note: it can be hard to catch this if you're being hired from abroad/away. One more reason to ask questions of people already there. Worst case scenario is they lie about everything. Yum yum - that's the enviornment I want to work in for the rest of my life.

8. Does the company have a stable history? "Stable history" is up for interpretation, I know. But in China, I know of a few start up language mills that I would avoid at all costs, as I know they won't last as long as my next bottle of dish soap. Can't help you here. Develop insticnts and go with them. Worst case scenario is the company goes under without paying what it owes you.

9. Is the school one that consistantly gets bad reviews on the internet? Read the reports people post. Now, sometimes you'll see one good and one bad review. Even if it's just one review, sometimes people lie about shcools just because they like the sound of their fingers clacking agianst their computer keyboards. Ditto for a single good review. But if, for instance, you've read through here and haven't figured out NOVA is a crap place to work for anyone with dignity and a desire to actually teach, well, I just can't help you. If that will bother you, then don't go. Know yourself. Worst case scenario is that you finally realize you hate your job, just a few months after moving to a new country to work.

10. Do the people who evaluate you understand what you say? And are in a position to actually know you well enough to evaluate you? I've had complaints brought against me by a manager who doesn't understand English well enough to know what I say. And she complained about what I said. I've had a manager who had never seen me teach complain about my teaching style. I'm kind of nit-picking here, but the sorts of things that you might want to consider before taking a job can be unreal. This is a small example. Worst case scenario, though, is that you don't get a pay raise, or even get sanctioned or fired, over something you haven't even done.

There are more, but I'll stop here as they get a bit more nit-picky from here.

[naturegirl321]