Job Discussion Forums

[theesltesolman]

This place scares me. Not only does it scare me because of the pseudo-sophisticated tecnology, but the pseudo-sophisticated sense of intelligence you must have to get a job there. What I'm speaking of is Japan.
It appears most people there are yuppies, with a headiness that makes the job of teaching look like 'a real profession.' But in fact I've taught conversational English for over four years, in a country that exceeds this one in English speaking ability, and can't really fathom what difference an M.A. or person with a Harvard degree would really make teaching someone "What's your name?" In this sense, I see Japan as a scary place to find a job, and educationally, eerie.
So what of it? Why doesn't Japan act like other countries, and how could a person like myself, a 37 year old with an undergraduate degree, step into this cerebral fog? Am I not qualified to these people? Should I pursue this elusive ghost of a country for a job, a country that seems a shadow darkening the mindset of free enterprise in this market of make-believe money? I wonder. Any thoughts would help. And, oh yes. I do have TESL.

[Lynden]

[PAULH]

"It appears most people there are yuppies, with a headiness that makes the job of teaching look like 'a real profession.'

Considering that in japan most teachers can afford to travel halfway around theworld to find a job, require at least a university education in order to get a teaching visa, are reasonably well educated and come from English speaking countries sch as Australia, New Zealand and Canada what do you expect? A single mother with two kids, a redneck with a 9th grade education from Kentucky?

Teaching IS a profession, if you consider that high school and college teachers in your own country usually require professional training, usually have a university degree, and good teachers are continually upgrading their skills, and many belong to professional teaching associations. A sign of a good teacher here is also one that does not use their position to hit on their students or simply work in Japan so they can fund their trips to Bali.

In Japan there are professional teachers with Masters degrees and degrees in Education who do care about their teaching and their students.Many teachers teaching English conversation unfortunately lack that, and are often more concerened with making ends meet and paying their bills in a foreign country.

But in fact I've taught conversational English for over four years, in a country that exceeds this one in English speaking ability, and can't really fathom what difference an M.A. or person with a Harvard degree would really make teaching someone "What's your name?"

The japanese education system has developed in such a way that the purpose of learning English is not for communication but to learn about Western culture through reading and writing, translation and preparation for university entrance exams. Most Japanese do not need English communicative skills in their daily lives and is 'put on the back burner' though most Japanese know they need english to interact with the outside world.

IMO the degree is not an indicator of teacher ability or competence, as you have PhDs in Japan who cant teach their way out of a paper bag, as well as skilled and professional teachers with no formal qualifications. I consider myself one of the degreed teacher you speak of, with a masters in TESOL. In Japan where I work at least (a university) , the degree is meant as an indicator of ones intelligence and training, a sign of perserverance and stickability, and is used for hiring purposes when hiring university teachers. with increased competition and too many candidates chasing too few jobs, a Masters is a way of sorting the 'wheat from the chaff'. When I started teaching at university in japan I didnt have a Masters degree, and the teaching I do now, 10 years later, in not much different from then. The only difference is a wider range of josb and opportunities become open to me with a Masters degree.

Going back to the 'professional' aspect- a good teacher will also be constantly observing, constantly questioning and finding new ways to improve their teaching. Professional etachers will analyse their classes, collect data and share the results with other teachers in academic and professional journals. This takes discipline, know-how, training and practice to see results, and this is in part what having a Masters or a post-graduate degree teaches you to do. I teach freshman classes of students who know no spoken English and for many its the first time they have met a foreigner or spoken english. However my Masters training and professional skills help me to find the most effective methods for teaching '"What's your name?", espcially when you have upwards of 30-40 in a class. teaching at NOVA with 2-3 students a Masters is probably not so valued or recognised in ones salry or job status, but it certainly is in the high school or university arena.


"In this sense, I see Japan as a scary place to find a job, and educationally, eerie. So what of it? Why doesn't Japan act like other countries, and how could a person like myself, a 37 year old with an undergraduate degree, step into this cerebral fog? Am I not qualified to these people?"

You are qualified in the sense that you have a degree so you can obtain a work visa to teach in this country. You have an ESL (or EFL if teaching in Japan) that will benefit your students. Im not sure what you are aiming for job or career-wise, your motivation or goals when coming to teach in Japan. as I tell many people- you dont need a degree to become a teacher (you can work on a spouse visa or even a student visa PT) but you need a degree for immigration, to obtain a visa to work here. What separates the sheep from the goats IMO is the LEVEL of qualifications, the level of training, the level of professionalism, the attitude you hold toward teaching and your chosen profession.

Conversation schools and conversation schools are looked down upon here becuase the entry requirements are relatively light, no formal qualifications and training are required, and the market (dictated by the student or customer wanting to pay as low as possible) that salaries will also be cheap. Get a Masters, work in a high school, acquire further qualifications and your value to the market place increases. I teach low-level students at my university but becuase of my educational background my school pays me a professional salary. You decide with teaching TEFL is professional or not.

"Should I pursue this elusive ghost of a country for a job, a country that seems a shadow darkening the mindset of free enterprise in this market of make-believe money? "

Make-believe money? Last time I checked the money I earn is real, buys real food, has bought a real car and real estate back home, the banks overseas accept it gladly into my pension fund, and I feed four people with my 'make-believe' money.



I wonder. Any thoughts would help. And, oh yes. I do have TESL.

[Glenski]

I think we have to clear up something right at the beginning. Teaching in a language school is a different situation from teaching in high schools, universities, kindergartens, and elementary schools. So many people post about "teaching English" and don't make this distinction. I've worked in both. So has another frequent contributor here, Paul. Which type are you talking about in your posts?

I'm a little puzzled by some of theesltesolman's comments.

1. What "pseudo-sophisticated technology" are you referring to? I use a chalkboard as much as anybody. Please clarify this for us.

2. Most of us, you said, are yuppies with a "pseudo-sophisticated sense of intelligence you must have to get a job there". I couldn't disagree more! There are probably more people in the eikaiwa business than in public institutions (like high schools), and the requirements to get jobs in eikaiwas are much looser. Many people on forums like this will tell you it doesn't take a rocket scientist to land a job at XYZ Eikaiwa. Just a pulse. I've run into so many people who want to learn how to slack off in their classes while they teach, that it's disgusting. Definitely no intelligence loose in THOSE classrooms behind the podium.

Now, if you are talking about jobs in HS, universities, and such, the requirements are a little more stringent. Degrees and/or experience directly related to teaching English are preferred in most cases. I don't see this as a snobbish sense of intelligence, just basic requirements that are set by the school. If you don't meet them, you shouldn't complain about the people who do.

3. You said such people have a "a headiness that makes the job of teaching look like 'a real profession.' " Again, which type of school are you talking about -- eikaiwa or public institution? The former is usually populated by transients with unrelated degrees or backgrounds towards teaching, while the others more often than not have people really interested in teaching seriously. I certainly wouldn't say that my own high school teachers or college professors WEREN'T in a real profession. Would you? So, I feel the same way about foreigners in similar situations in Japan. Of course, not everyone stays the duration, but they are more likely to do so in public institutions, in my opinion.

4. You wrote, "I've taught conversational English for over four years, in a country that exceeds this one in English speaking ability..." Now I consider that to be a pseudo-sophisticated statement! It's no secret that Japan ranks very low anyway on the scale of English fluency, so why would you make such a comment? Moreover, it would help all of us to understand your position if you'd have told us where you taught.

5. You wrote that you "can't really fathom what difference an M.A. or person with a Harvard degree would really make teaching someone "What's your name?" " Back to the same old story. You won't find too many Linguistics MA or PhD holders at eikaiwas or kindergartens, which is where they learn such simplistic stuff. And, if you are referring to the teaching profession as a whole, think again. We teach MUCH more than such low level English. It just depends on what kind of institution you are talking about.

In my high school, for example, I have seniors doing group projects to make discussions, TV commercials, picture dramas, and such. My juniors have to write speeches and present them. Other juniors are involved in composition classes. The students under them have to polish their grammar, but they are presenting recitations in English from published works of literature. And, in my old language school, we had classes that discussed scientific breakthroughs or cultural differences between various countries. These far exceed the "What's your name" chatter that you allude to.

6. "Why doesn't Japan act like other countries...?" Simple. No two countries are the same. Each has its own culture and customs. What other countries should Japan act like, in your opinion?

7. "...how could a person like myself, a 37 year old with an undergraduate degree, step into this cerebral fog? Am I not qualified to these people?"
Again, a pseudo-sophisticated remark, calling them "these people". To answer your question, it's very simple. Decide whether you want to teach eikaiwa classes or other types, apply, and hope for the best. You have the basic minimum immigration requirement for a work visa (a bachelor's degree). I assume you meant that you have TESL certification/training (you aren't very clear about this), so that will be a plus to some employers (not all, and certainly not to many eikaiwas). We don't know what other education & experience you have, so nobody can tell you what your chances are of getting a job. I can tell you that your age won't make that much difference. And, if your resume and cover letter doesn't look presentable, you probably won't even get your foot in the door.

8. You wrote, "Should I pursue this elusive ghost of a country for a job, a country that seems a shadow darkening the mindset of free enterprise in this market of make-believe money", but I have no idea what you mean by "elusive ghost" or "make-believe money". Sounds like more pseudo-sophisticated reasoning to me. Quite frankly, it sounds like you'd have a very negative experience here because you are already starting with a negative attitude. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[PAULH]

I have just re-read Lyndens post and with all due respect reading what Glenski said about so-called teachers slacking off in class is rather striking, coming from a so-called teacher already working in Japan


"One student informed me quite seriously that she didn't want to do homework (or any other work for that matter) but still expected to learn english. I wished her good luck and she thanked me for it. Actually she became a good friend of mine, I just decided I was going to take her class really easy. "

Lynden said the student doesnt want to study so he is not going to make her. Is this what teaching is all about? Why is the student in his class?
What is Lynden's attitude toward that student making progress and learning English. Are you doing her any real favours?

I have found if you ask many students why they are studying English the large majority dont know, or once they have cleared the entrance examination hurdle their single purpose for studying has been taken away and they study just for the credit. I can not make a student study English and will only help those who want to study and are serious, but at the same time will make students work for their grade. If you simply tell students they dont have to do homework you set I think it defeats the whole purpose of learning. Students have to know WHY they are studying and WHY its important and that is the teachers job. If you have no idea why students should study or do homework yourself you have no place in the classroom.


Why do you have to play the pop star? In the average high school classroom a 'chalk' and 'talk' lecture style format, where the teacher stands up the front and tals at the student is often not effective- the students need a role-model for communication by doing role-plays, drama, gesture, etc. getting the students to talk and communicate is your job and looking down on using action in the classroom, or considering it childish or silly is shortsighted IMO.

A teacher by definition is has traditionally the center of attention in a classroom, the focus of learning and knowledge, where the teacher talks and the students write in their books. Students all through their education have been passive learners and this is what they come to expect from their educational experience. being asked to do things for themselves is a new experience for them- what good teachers do is not have the teacher 'teaching' but have students discover learning for themselves, rather than have everything spoonfed to them by the 'dancing bear' at the front of the classroom.

"I never really did figure out the Japanese approach to education"

What do you know about your students, how they progress through the educational system? How they learnt English at school and why they learnt English (ie. not for speaking but to pass an grammar-based entrance exam). Have you read any books about education in Japan or how children learn in this country? Did you ask any of your public school teachers about their experience, their educational background their teaching philosophies? If they are speaking to you in English there is no reason you can not learn these things or find out about them for yourself. That is what education and being professional and developing your skills is all about- not sitting on your chuff yapping 'this is a pen' and collecting your pay check every month.

If you are not prepared to develop your skills and knowledge how can you expect your students to? Why should they do what you havent bothered to do yourself? You must lead by example.

I dont rest on my laurels by being the token gaijin exploiting my native language ability to get a pay check. I try to read widely, try many different things, advance my teaching skills, network with and observe other teachers and most importantly ask questions: WHY?

"As you will never fit in anyway and many students are paying simply to watch an alien perform, just take it easy and save as much money as possible and try to help the students who want it."

Im not quite sure what you mean here- I dont try to be Japanese or act like one. After many years here I have learnt to accept Japan and Japanese people warts and all, dont try to 'change' the people or want them to be more like me, as many try to to do. rtaher than try and beat your head against a wall its better to accept things as thy are, and make the most of your situation. you will never be Japanese nor do they expect you to be. However it is possible to have a fulfilling career teaching in this country if you dont always worry about 'why dont they accept me'?


You are pad to come over here, paid a professional salary, are charged with the satisfying the educational needs of your students and your best answer is 'take it easy, save your money'. Is that the best you can do for your students? Dont they deserve better than a fatalistic, she'll be right, lackadaisacal attitude that many conversation school teachers have? From the previous posts I think this is where teachers like the original poster and Lynden differ from teachers like Glenski and I, in our professional attitudes, the way we respond to our students, and our attitudes to our chosen professions.

'Act like a clown, take it easy, dont worry about homework' coming from Lynden speaks volumes about the difference between those who can teach and those who won't.

[LITTLE PEACHES]

i'm surprised for a person who wants to teach abroad, has an attitude like this. If you want to teach abroad, or in another country, don't hold you nose so high above other people, you have to want to be part of their culture on not belittling them.

[wayne432]

This post was from about 6 and half years ago...
And the OP only ever posted this... let this post rest in peace I say