Job Discussion Forums

[sixfour]

I've recently given a great deal of consideration to the idea of teaching abroad. Given the fact that here in the States the economic situation is in the dump. I just graduated this past May with a B.S. in a business related major. I have applied to over 30 companies in the last 2-3 months and have not been given a single interview. So I thought about teaching abroad until I ran into a TEFL site that advised against non-Caucasians.

"...it is difficult for non-Caucasian people to find employment teaching in Korea. There is an image that most schools have in their head of who they want to hire."

The site is ran by a Canadian recruiting agency. They seem to be in disfavor of such practice as stated on their site, but they ultimately adhere to Korean demands.

At first I was in shock , as I thought here in the south (Texas) I might have been discriminated against once or twice in my lifetime. Reading that really upset me, but later understood the fact that perhaps people in other countries don't understand the concept of being American. That they expect a Caucasian person with blond hair and blue eyes to teach them English.

But anyway, my question is, What are my job prospects in TEFL? Which countries (worldwide) are more likely to be more progressive and open minded?

PS I'm Hispanic

[naturegirl321]

I wouldn't say that it's difficult, but it is harder, especially if you're Asian. It sounds bad, but try to take a picture that shows you in the best light, and with white skin. You're hispanic, I look hispanic/ASian, go figure, I'm not. I married a Peruvian, so have a Spanish last name.

Take a picture that makes you look like a gringo, and if you have more than one last name (I have three, joys of Peru) use the most gringo sounding one.

Forget recruiters, apply directly to the schools, one thing, with the econ crisis, there are more people looking at teaching, so more competition.

Hey, I feel for you, I've gone through countless of interview that say "so, how did you learn English?" Um, I'm a native speaker.

BUt you live in Peru.
Yes, unfortunately, but I only live here, I'm not from here. My parents and grandparents were from the US. Tehcnically I'm from an immigrant family, but they came in 1905, come on , give me a break.

Do you like Peru?
No, I hate it.

Oh, so why is your last name X?
I'm married

Oh, so why do you look Asian, Peruvian, etc?
God only knows.

Of course, in the end, I send a nice email telling them that I'm withdrwaing my application because I don't want to work for idiots like that.

Also , in ASia, you'll hear about the white monkey. I've seen Russians in China, who could barely speak English teach English, because the directors could show off the foreign teachers.

You could try just about anywhere, but you'll have more problems in Asia. that being said, China is pretty easy to get a job in. Korea as well. Japan seems to be tough. Maybe Taiwan is a possibility, but I think you have to be there in person.

There's always Mexico Or latin America, but visas are an issue.

[sixfour]

thanks for your insight

[Justin Trullinger]

About non-caucasians teaching English. I've heard stories of discrimination, but met several black teachers working in Korea. And yes, they told me stories of discrimination- yet there they were. Many of my students in Korea thought I was from Ecuador. (Funny, I don't really look latin american, but since I'd arrived from Ecuador, they got confused and I never managed to sort it out.)

Ecuador would tend to include fairly run of the mill discrimination, in the form of ignorant questions, but we've had several US teachers of hispanic descent take our TESOL course and find work without trouble (Other than the annoying questions, that is.).

Here's a question, though- have you got any kind of teacher training? I don't want to sound wrong- but the places that will hire you without any are mostly sort of semi-scams that charge students too much based on having native "teachers," when they don't have any real teachers at all. These sorts of "schools" trade on the blue eyes, blond hair image. When I was in Korea, I worked with a woman from Tajikistan. Ukranians, Russians, and Koreans have all done the same sort of work there. But needless to say, all were pretty highly trained.

If you want professional treatment, the best way to get it is by being a professional. I'm not saying that it's right to treat untrained teachers in a racist way- but the whole concept behind most places that employ non-teachers to teach is erroneous at best, racist and dishonest at worst. So it would be weird to expect high standards of ethical behaviour from them.


Best,
Justin

[sixfour]

Thanks.

What about other countries other than Korea? Such as Eastern European countries, Asia Minor, Central Asia? How do you think they view Hispanics?

And yes, I'm thinking about doing the CELTA. Hopefully those 5 letters will open doors for me.

[naturegirl321]

[Justin Trullinger]

You'll want to get fairly specific- each country is different.

Where Europe is concerned, they may not care one way or another about you being hispanic, but the fact that you're American would be a serious disadvantage where visas are concerned...

Asia Minor, central Asia, I've never been. Choose specific countries and post about them in the country forums if you can.

Saludos,
Justin

[livinginkorea]

It's true that a lot of places outside Seoul do look down on non-Caucasians. I worked in one institute before back in 2005 and an African-American started to work there. He lived all his life in America, a nice guy and definitely more qualified than me. Anyway, I had an arguement with the manager (Korean) about my payment, specifically since they wanted to give me extra classes in a company and I said well that's more work and prep than in the institute so I want to get x amount per hour not y amount per hour. There were a few people in the office and that new teacher was there too.

The manager's face just changed after I said that. He pulled me outside and said 'Don't talk about money in front of him. Do you think we will pay the same amount to him as you get?' I said 'he more qualified than me so I expect that he would at least make the same amount as me.' The manager said 'Come on, his black, Korean people don't like black people so we have to pay him less than other teachers.' I was shocked and didn't know what to say. Later on the boss chewed me out a bit for mentioning money in front of others (but I knew he meant that new teacher). The boss lived in Canada for over ten years but his was pulling this kind of crap on teachers. Glad I walked out of that place a couple of weeks later. The best thing I ever did in work.

So to answer your post, it's true that some places would be like that but they would mostly be the institutes were money is the main key for them to survive. If students or parents complain about the teacher not being from the big 7 and not being white then it can cause a lot of trouble for the owner of the school. As a result I think you would find more non-Caucasians in public schools and universities where money isn't a factor since they all get some form of state funding. At my university you can see the difference. I think Korea has to be more diverse when it comes to this but it takes time.

So if you are serious about teaching then get more and more qualified. In that way you can teach in the public schools/universities/companies which are more accepting of different people.

Lik.

[Glenski]

So you're Hispanic and from Texas. Just leave out the Hispanic part of your description (and don't say you're "Mexican-American" or anything like that). Let employers judge you by your qualifications and cover letter and interview style. Ignore those who judge.

You don't need blue eyes and blond hair to be an EFL teacher.

[naturegirl321]

[spiral78]

Naturegirl's right - people in many parts of Europe do discriminate against someone with brown skin, based on their prejudices against gypsies. It's not right, but it does happen.

US citizens are still eligible for legal working permits in most of the 'new' EU member countries, but it's a hassle for both the teacher and his/her employer.

To be really honest, I think it wouldn't be so easy for the OP to find a reasonable, legal position in Central/Eastern Europe and to live freely there without concern of discrimination.

[Justin Trullinger]

[Glenski]

[johnslat]

The deep, dark secret (which isn't really secret) is that there's PLENTY of prejudice and bias around. It's rampant in the Middle East, as this thread shows.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=771042#771042

It's talking about Egypt specifically, but the same is true over most if not all of the Middle East.
Is it stupid - you betcha. But when has this planet ever suffered from a dearth of stupidity?

Regards,
John

[ESL Hobo]

1) Race discrimination exists. But in some countries Age discrimination and discrimination against being overweight are also factors in getting a job. Even so, fat and /or old people can still find employment if they keep looking.

2) The posters here have some good suggestions on how to get hired abroad. But I think a good option might be to get your credentials and teach in the States where there are laws prohibiting these types of discrimination.

3) If you go for your Masters in an ESL field, you will probably be able to make a good salary working in a university but its tough to get a tenured position. If you settle for a TEFL/TESOL/CELTA will be able to get part time work in language schools that are adjunct to universities or private schools. I think most of the private schools are on the West coast, mostly in SF and LA. A few in Miami and of course NYC. A lot of teachers doing this have trouble making ends meet and often work at least one other part time job.


4) If you are bilingual in Spanish and English there are heaps of opportunities, with the right credentials, to teach and earn a great salary in Bilingual Education in the the states.

Personally, I had the "discrimination problem" in Texas, myself, when I lived in San Antonio. Hispanic people seemed to be unfriendly to me at first but when they found out I could speak Spanish and worked at the University of Mexico, they warmed up immediately.

Still, I got tired of being judged by my blue eyes and white skin, so I moved on.