| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
eik
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 45
|
 Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:55 am Post subject: teaching with F (business) visa : where condoned ? |
 |
|
| Is it true that in certain regions of China, teaching with a F (business) visa is condoned ? If so, which regions is this being condoned ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Sinobear
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 1269
Location: Purgatory
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
If your contract term is for less than six months then working on an F visa is usually okay.
If your contract states that you are lecturing NOT teaching, and you are receiving 'living expenses' or a stipend, then usually you're okay.
In either case, ensure that you are paying taxes on any income.
And remember, F and Z visas will be restricted leading up to the October 60th anniversary celebrations in October.
Cheers! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sharpe88
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 226
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Never heard this before.
"If your contract term is for less than six months then working on an F visa is usually okay. " |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| the regs states just that.. but to be legal .. it should be requested by the employer... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adw
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 49
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| evaforsure wrote: |
| the regs states just that.. but to be legal .. it should be requested by the employer... |
So if I apply for a F visa myself then it's not legal, am I correct ???  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That is the way I understand it...although I have never seen any problems come from working independent on an F... on occasion I have seen post here on Dave�s that would indicate that some have had problems. .but you have to remember that you have to suppose that everyone has an agenda...but look at it this way.. in the states and most places a work permit is tied to en employer and it is no difference here...
One example I do know of is a foreign university were using FTs in Shenzhen and last year the PSB did visit them and informed them that they would have to convert them to Zs and then to FECs and RPs..they were converted and it was business as usual... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sinobear
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 1269
Location: Purgatory
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You'll need an invitation letter from a Chinese employer or from a Chinese company to apply for the F visa unless you acquire one in HK (and even then you may still need the invitation letter).
Cheers! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adw
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 49
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sinobear wrote: |
You'll need an invitation letter from a Chinese employer or from a Chinese company to apply for the F visa unless you acquire one in HK (and even then you may still need the invitation letter).
Cheers! |
Sorry, still not clear to me. a) You need an invitation letter to get a F visa, or b) you need an invitation letter in order to work with that F visa ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| As I have seen it work, it is not an invite letter as the z visa invite letter ..which is an official form.. it is a letterhead with a school chop...Now, the HK version of the do it yourselfers.. create the letter head of a company and indicted the applicant as an employee...but this is not strictly kosher (although it may be tech. Legal the actual use of this kind of visa could be questioned) even though people do work on the F acquired this way�there will be some risk.. it would take a lifetime to find out all the actual ins and outs of this process�and no one can guarantee a safe working environment from any of these methods.. even if a person gets a Z visa, and enters the country on that visas.. they have no assurances that the visas has been issued by the org that they have agreed to work for� in this country Up is down and down is up, you buys your tikt and takes the chance on the ride�last year they just refused to renew F visas in Beijing leaving a lot of people in the ticket line paying the fare home |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sinobear
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 1269
Location: Purgatory
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Example: my college brings lecturers in from Canada for short stints. Because these lecturers have a contract lasting less than six months and they only receive 'living expenses' during their stay - they have no problems with the F visa, however, the school here must issue the official invitation letter before they can get the visa.
Previously, travel agents in HK could get you a one year, multiple re-entry F visa with just your passport and a picture. One of the agents I used now says that they require an invitation letter (signed, sealed, chopped) as well.
The legalities of working on an F, the semantics of your contract, or your willingness to 'wing it' on your own in China is always a crap-shoot. Some people never have any problems for years, others get pulled into the PSB station within days of their arrival.
My take on this is simple:
Ignorance of the law is no excuse (in any country) and you must be willing and able to face the consequences of your actions, whether it's a fine and/or jail and deportation.
Cheers! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| even if a person gets a Z visa, and enters the country on that visas.. they have no assurances that the visas has been issued by the org that they have agreed to work for |
The SAFEA website lists school names and license numbers by geographic region does it not?
One could Match the list to the invitation letter and hiring organisation couldn't they?
In fact, I think this is a repeat of an old thread that linked to the SAFEA site.
So yeah, in fact, one can have assurances if they are willing to do a modicum of due diligence. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tuvia
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 34
Location: beijing
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| you can only legally work (as in, work where you are paid a salary) with a z visa. the f visa, that people like to refer to as the business visa, is to attend business seminars, training, or study chinese (for example) for less than six months. study longer and usually you will get an x visa. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TexasHighway
Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 779
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sinobear said:
| Quote: |
| You'll need an invitation letter from a Chinese employer or from a Chinese company to apply for the F visa unless you acquire one in HK |
If you are in the US and are a citizen here, they also accept an invitation from your US company on the company's letterhead explaining the purpose of your visit and accepting financial responsiblity. The business visa is a 12 month muti-entry visa. For each entry, you can stay only 60 days....but you could go to HK for a few hours and reenter the same day. The tourist visa is also 12 month, multiple entry, with 60 days allowed for each visit. This is in accordance with a recent US-China agreement so it may not apply to citizens of other countries. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
The SAFEA website lists school names and license numbers by geographic region does it not?
One could Match the list to the invitation letter and hiring organisation couldn't they? |
Perhaps it does .. I have never seen that section of that website...but since SAFEA is a voluntary origination, I am not sure that they would list all that are able to provide a z visa as being a member of SAFEA is not mandatory to provide legal paperwork and even a SAFEA contract is not always required to obtain the FE book.. also many times several schools by different names are in the same location providing papers to FTs working under different banners.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mikethemule1998
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Quote:
The Ever-changing Cleric wrote:
I don't know who rats who out here in China, but I've never heard of or met anyone who was kicked out for working on an F visa. The police/authorities don't seem too worried about the problem here. |
I can tell you that 4 FT's and I were all kicked out of China in April, 2008. We all had either "F" or "L" visas and were waiting for our company, "Linguaphone Shenzhen" to obtain the proper "Z" visas. We were told "don't worry, we are working on it", but nonetheless we were brought to the police station, fingerprinted and compelled to sign statements of our guilt. "Linguaphone" gave the police records of our pay and knew the police were coming in, yet didn't warn us. The police said "if we cooperated, nothing would happen to us", however we were then given exit visas and forced to go back to our home countries. The police said " you can not work in China without a "Z" visa, yet some went back to "Linguaphone" with new passports and worked again without it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
