Job Discussion Forums

[dharma86]

I'm just after getting a job offer for North China University of Water Conservancy and Electric Power in Zhengzou.

Can you please tell me what the university is like firstly?

And then what it is like living in the city? (particularly for somebody in their 20's)

To summarise the contract;
4800rmb
18 hours
Accommodation with A-Z (all bills paid for except phonecalls)
Traval allowance + return airfare + normal chinese holidays 2 days at christmas 1 thanksgiving.

Now... the thing that strikes me is this. The university has a campus in Dengfeng;

[frank d]

I'm a little confused... Have you already accepted the position?

Henan is considered to be (by Chinese and expats) the WORST province in all of China. Thievery and corruption are rampant throughout China but said to be partiicularly bad in Henan. It also has the highest population of any province.

As for the question regarding classes in Hengfong... anything is possible. They could well expect you to teach a class or two before going or after retirning from Hengfong. Whatever they tell you regarding that arrangement be sure it appears IN WRITING within the contract.

Frankly, I would not take that job. Keep looking. There's far better locations and contract terms than the ones you outline.

I'm sure others will weigh in regarding your questions, soon.

Good luck, and be careful!

[Hansen]

Some things to consider: DengFeng is home to the Shaolin temple. If you like martial arts, excellent place to be. An extra 50 RMB for a three hour bus trip?. Bad deal. Normally, that would be a numbered noobie blunder; however, again, were talking about the home of the Shaolin temple.

If you have no interest in martial arts, I'd take a pass. Henan, as my esteemed colleague frankd pointed out, is, shall we say, perhaps not the most progressive place in China. There are many special things in Henan, however. Longmen Grotto, for instance. Also, the Chen village for those interested in taiji, also Zhokou, for those interested in the Muslim branch of Xingyi martial arts. Chinese medicine and massage are well represented here. Luoyang has a great massage school, one of the best in China.

Zhengzhou itself, depends on just where you are. Some lovely pockets but lots of concrete wasteland. Horrible air at times and noise, noise, noise, except in those nice pockets. Huge amount of construction going on as well, which contributes to horrible, dusty air and noise, noise, noise.

There has been some strange stuff with the visa office lately regarding length of resident permits. I was recently told that six months in length is the maximum allowed by law. Then, more recently, a poster here, told me he got the usual one year+ visa without any problem.

If you do get stuck with a 6 month resident permit, your holidays may be ruined because you may not get your RP renewed in time for holiday travel

As someone who knows, I would say that unless you are a martial arts enthusiast, there is little here for you. The three hour bus ride twice a week is going to get old real fast. How are you supposed to get the bus? Public bus? if yes, forget it. The bus trips, depending on the bus, can be hell, absolute hell, unless you like horrible Chinese movies and "brown suited" guys with their phone ringer turned up to "loud" getting multiple calls which they don't answer right away.

Again, if you are a martial arts enthusiast, it might all be worth it. DengFeng itself is a nice little town.

[frank d]

I was hoping Hansen would offer some information as he seems to be the best authority on Henan province currently on this forum. Take heed!

[roadwalker]

I don't know anything about the university or the location of the school or branch of the school. I traveled to Zhengzhou just for purposes of going elsewhere, so I don't have an opinion other than it is pretty ugly around the train station. The airport at Xinzheng is not bad and often has cheap tickets since underused.

I found the people of Henan better in some respects than in other places. While there was staring and hello's, most of the hellos were said to my face and with a smile. (I'm not counting hello taxis in train, bus stations.) I liked the people and still have friends from Henan. There seemed to be a lot of corruption but nothing that really affected my teaching or living. There are many threads on Henan in general, take a gander before dismissing it sight unseen.

[dharma86]

Thanks for the info so far people.

I have not accepted the position yet.

I am going to see about this Dengfeng thing and what can be done about it before I even consider taking the position.

After that it's really wondering about Zhengzhou and what it is like.

[frank d]

Again, I'm hoping other FTs will provide additional direct knowledge about Zhengzhou, but in the meantime, here's a promotional webpage that offers facts, stats, etc.:
http://www.expatsz.com/cities/2008-8-18/2008818115632.htm

[cblack76]

The travel allowance for the trip is quite bad. I'm assuming you'd also need to travel from the train station to the school, which might be another half hour, in total giving you four hours of travel time per trip out there. That's 8 hours a week for a lousy 100 RMB. Are you getting paid extra for your classes taught out there, or is it included in salary?

In the end, you're looking at 26 hours a week for 4900, which is not great.

[dharma86]

Travelling to and from that campus would be a ridiculous thing to do.

I put forward this proposal and gave the uni two options;
1. Days that I am in Dengfeng I would not have any classes in Zhengzhou and get 100rmb travel allowance
or
2. No classes in Dengfeng at all, only classes in Zhengzhou campus for the duration of the contract.

I think that's pretty reasonable.
If they can't do that I ain't going to give this contract much more consideration.

Love the 'Tourism' section of that page frank d pretty honest, haha.

[frank d]

Excellent decision. I especially prefer option #2, but remember, if they do accept one of those options (who knows -- probably NOT #2) then BE SURE it is reflected in the contract.

This is a typical type of situation where they'll agree to something verbally, get you under contract and in Zhengzhou -- and then when the time comes, they will say YOUR understanding of the new arrangement was a "misunderstanding." Happens all the time.

If they hesitate/stall on this one, that's a strong indicator of what will follow.

In fact, no matter what school/universoty you end up with, there will be some level of disappointment and frustration -- either with teaching schedule, unexpected expectations/requests (on their part), or housing. The possibilities are endless...

Again, good luck and stick to your guns on the Dengfeng thing.

Yeah, the "tourism" section on tthe webpage is thankfully, quite honest; and how about that lovely sky in the photo? Welcome to Zhengzhou!

[danielb]

Roadwalker wrote:

[frank d]

I understand your feeling, danielb.
Anhui province also has a poor reputation, but of the provinces/cities I lived in (or visited), the people of HeFei were the most genuinely kind and hospitable to me. Too bad the sschool was a nightmare.

[Hansen]

Regarding the trip to DengFeng: There is no train. I believe the university in question is on the otherside of the city from Dengfeng, which is approached from the southwest. Not completely sure about that, however.

A four hour trip, which is probably what it will end up as, for 100RMB, is still a ripoff. You could normally do 4 class periods in a four hour stretch which would be ~300RMB, depending on your contract. You are getting burned bad on a trip like that. And then there is the fare. You may be looking at 30 -50 RMB round trip.

I can walk to my classes in less than 10 minutes from my flat.

If I could go up there weekly, spend the night, and teach a few classes, it might be worth it. Otherwise, I'd probably not be interested.

That's without considering the stress factor of the trip itself, which, at times, can be extreme.

[peruisay]

I've lived in Zhengzhou three years now. Have traveled to most everywhere else in China and don't see much of a difference (among things that are important to me).

Salaries are about the same - they run from nothing (say 3000 RMB a month) to outrageous (26000 RMB a month). People still yell. Children still like basketball because it's interesting.

I would NOT take a job that required me to travel to another city. Deng Feng is far from Zhengzhou. Get the shortest commute you can. I live a block from my school.

Buses can be late. Buses can be dirty. Buses can stop at random places while their drivers smoke cigarettes and chat outside for one hour.

I know I'm opening myself up to the wolves with this, but you're totally welcome to check out my flickr photostream. I have a ton of pictures of places around Zhengzhou. It might help. If you have any more specific questions, feel free to ask.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rzganoza/

[Hansen]

Peruisay, Nice pictures. While you stated that they are of places around Zhengzhou, I wouldn't say that they are at all representative of what life in Zhengzhou itself is like. Admittedly, I only looked at the first ten pages or so.

Parts of Zhengzhou are "nice" compared to other parts; however, I have seen nothing here that is remotely comparable to "nice" when talking about a place such as Kyoto, Japan, for example.

For one thing, the people. While there are certainly nice people here, a typical Zhengzhou person might not necessarily fall into the nice category. There are more than enough sniggering college boys and brown suited immigrants from other places to obscure the nice people. And the thieving taxi drivers and shop keepers are a blight, with their counterfeit money, which they especially like to pass to foreigners.

Incidentally, an acquaintance of mine, a retired physician asociated with the local prison, recently told me that Zhengzhou, because of its central location, is home to criminals and low lifes from all over China. Major north/south and east/west rail lines pass through Zhengzhou; consequently, people on the "lamb" often end up here.

The PSB personnel, compared to a place like Dali, for instance, at times seem like ruthless Nazi types, who can't be avoided. You have to deal with them to get your documents processed. And without some special help, dealing with them can be a nightmare.