Job Discussion Forums

Ilja · Joined: 02 Dec 2003 Posts: 23 Location: Taichung

I was wondering if this is a problem with teachers..

I JUST graduated and am still waiting for the 'official' piece of paper with the 'official' stamp from my University....but it will not be ready until several months from today....until that time I only have a 'conditional' degree with the University letterhead, but it's unofficial. How picky are schools with this? Will it be a problem signing contracts or getting a residents visa? Please let me know, because I would like to come soon, but I'm not going to risk it until I have that degree in my hot little hands!!

Thanks,
Ilja

Mozilla · Joined: 16 Mar 2003 Posts: 90

It's not a problem. I know of 2 guys who are teaching WITHOUT a degree.

Pop Fly · Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 429

Whoa there Godzilla....it can be a problem. Or she might get lucky.

Officially, all that is needed is a signed photocopy of one's degree. Some school's insist on the original, but they are being over-cautious....

Yes, there are lots of jobs here where your temp. degree might suffice, but you run a better chance of working for a thug or worse.

Every school (3 now) I've worked for has asked for a copy of my degree.

brian · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 299

Assuming that you are going to seeking legal employment, it is best to expect that you will need your original degree in hand. The school that you are intending to work for needs to vouch for the fact that they have seen your original diploma. They then include a copy of this diploma along with all the other paperwork that they send off for your wroking permit application.

Whilst some schools may be willing to accept your word for it or just a photocopy of your diploma, others will want to verify the original. They may have been burned with fake degrees in the past or may be just unwilling to put their neck on the line for someone that they don't know. Whatever happens, viewing and copying your diploma is the most that the school needs. They do not need to hold the original, nor send it in with the other documentation. Do not give your original diploma to your school.

Mozilla - Are your friends working legally? You most definitely do need a diploma to get a work permit/ARC. What is the position that your friends are in?

Ilja · Joined: 02 Dec 2003 Posts: 23 Location: Taichung

hmmm...the outlook is not looking good...It wasn't really my plan to work for a "thug or worse"......The university does not print degrees until April for December grads, which means that I'd be teaching at least a month without a degree. From what I've heard, it is difficult to get an ARC and a work permit...though I could work the first month on a visitors visa...or can I ?
What is the job situation like these days?? I've heard some disturbing messages that jobs are 'drying' up..How true is this?

jason_seeburn · Joined: 26 Apr 2003 Posts: 399 Location: Toronto

Ilja · Joined: 02 Dec 2003 Posts: 23 Location: Taichung

hmmm....i can't really afford to "have a hot little time and let loose and enjoy yourself"....so schools are getting more sticky about this eh....hopefully i'll be getting that degree by March!!
ps. anyone in Taichung can tell me what the job market/housing situation is like?

trukesehammer · Joined: 25 Mar 2003 Posts: 168 Location: The Vatican

When are you coming? Do you have any teaching experience? If you are interested in the Taichung area, call me when you can! I am at 886-96-321-6844. I might be able to help you get situated.

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

You will have no problem finding a job. Lying is widely accepted behavior on Taiwan so feel free. Do not use a fake degree as many people have gotten in trouble doing that. If you should be foolish enough to try it don't apply for a work permit. Many people have done just that successfully while many others have been apprehended.
Simply tell them your degree is in the mail and you would like to work without and ARC or taxes until it arrives. Chances are you will be hired and never asked about it again.
The only real thing that will disqualify you from teaching on Taiwan is you race.
White, female, blue eyed, blonde hair and under thirty is the preferred "type" of teacher on Taiwan. All others credentials are secondary to that.

Welcome to Taiwan.
A.

brian · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 299

It seems to me that the original postee wants to work legally hence their question. Please be advised that what Aristotle is recommending is illegal and you would be deported if you were caught.

I would recommend waiting until you have your documentation and then you can come here without any worries and totally legal.

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

brian · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 299

Aristotle · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1388 Location: Taiwan

http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo/asia/sefer.cgi?Taiwan

brian · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 299

The link that you have provided is exactly what I was talking about, and in my opinion seems to prove my point. Choosing to work illegally doesn't magically protect teachers from encountering problems. In fact choosing to work legally actually gives the teacher the opportunity to work through problems and receive assistance when problems do occur. This seems pretty clear and simple.

Firstly, the majority of complaints at the link provided are a result of personality clashes and the like. Whilst these are real concerns for the individuals involved the fact that one is legal or illegal wouldn't prevent these clashes from occuring. At least a legal employee could turn to a third party for help. What do the illegals do? Just accept the situation or run away and lose some money in the process.

Secondly, the majority of what I will call 'legitimate' complaints involve smaller schools or schools that are always the source of complaints. Legitimate complaints would be things such as breach of contract by your employer, failure to pay wages, failure to supply promised ARC etc.

The choice to be a legal (or as legal as possible employee - by this I mean that you have provided all of the paperwork for processing) once again puts you in a far better position than working legally. Once again, you are not on your own and can turn to a third party for assistance. Had you made the decision to work illegally then you would not have this possibility for resolving the problems and would either have to accept it or run away, most likely less some wages.

I still can't see how working illegally is in a teachers best interests, helps them avoid problems or helps them resolve problems when they occur. As a long time advocate of working illegally I hope that you can help clarify this for me and the rest of the board Aristotle.

killian · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:42 pm Post subject: been there, done that

i, too, was a december grad. i, too, faced the same dilema. the university doesn't care, but you can't get that job without that sheepskin. they typed me up a letter certifying that i was indeed a graduate. clutching that precious piece of paper i hopped on the first plane smoking off that rock. that piece of paper got me nowhere. even though i had a school that wanted to legally hire me, they couldn't. i had to do the (then bi-monthly) visa runs to HK until my good mate was able to pick up and send me my original diploma/certificate. seems their ain't no legal way around it. once agian, someone who wants to be legal is denied the opportunity. when the diploma arrived the school made me legal, end of problem.

don't worry too much about being illegal. everybody here is illegal at one time or another. any job you get here will want you to start working ASAP. however, working ASAP is illegal. fret not, it is all part of the game. consider the interlude between now and when the diploma arrives a free time to check out and "try on" as many schools as you deem fit.

got your tourist visa from the taiwan "embassy" in your home country, not HK. home country embassies tend to give out longer visa stays than HK these days.

best wishes.