Job Discussion Forums

[Shumba]

Good afternoon!

I am new to TEFL (soon to start a CELTA), and I am looking to teach in Vietnam for about a year. However, I am mixed race (half white, half black) male, and have read stories online of some employers in South East Asia (particularly in Korea and to an extent, China) refusing to employ qualified non Caucasians. Is the same true for Vietnam? Would my ethnic mix pose a challenge for my employment?

Additionally, is there a particular time of the year when it is best to apply for jobs in Vietnam, or are jobs truly available all year?

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

[jayasia]

Yes, your race will be held against you. Even Asians receive a raw deal and are usually offered a lower starting rate than other , less qualified applicants.

I have seen a mixed race girl working at ILA and she must of been there for at least 18 months. Another smaller school I �ve worked at before, the owner mentioned he had an Afro-American teacher.

Once you get your foot in the door, you will need to prove yourself and put much more effort into your job than the average Caucasian teacher. Unfair I know, but that�s the only way to change the perception of schools/parents and even some students.

When u finish your CELTA, the low season will soon be upon you, with fewer classes opening as Tet is fast approaching.

Which city are you doing the CELTA in?

[jayasia]

http://www.wordhcmc.com/insider/160-general/763-for-whites-only

part interesting, part insightful.....largely bcoz of what one big chain school's aims are......."At the end of the day, any school has to listen to the demands of their customers and satisfy their needs.�

i thought it was all about providing a quality education?


i do not wish to comment any further

[snollygoster]

Worked in hiring capacity at one of our biggest and most wide-spread language Centres (any guesses)? and an Afro American applied for a job.
Credentials were excellent, his English was very educated and subject knowledge more than adequate.
Arranged a demo class and he passed in the high 90s-very employable so put his case up to my Vietnamese superiors who said "grab him".

"Oh, Dr., by the way, he's black". "Get rid of him-we dont want any of them here".
Protests-deaf ears.
Seems his English just took a nose dive.! Funny how your skin colur can do that to you!

[jayasia]

interesting. it could very well be the same applicant who was rejected by the owner of my school ,last year.

i only knew about it bcoz the Academic Manager (a S-E Asian) related to me what had happen.

he said this American guy held a MA or PH.D (?) and he was very keen to employ him to raise the teaching standards .

anyhow, the AM quit 6 months later. He was certainly no 'yes' man!
kudos to him,easily the best manager i've ever worked with in Vn.

[Shumba]

Thanks very much for the info jayasia and snollygoster. I'm doing my CELTA in Milton Keynes, UK.

Is it worth enquiring with some of these schools (I was considering ILA and Apollo) before applying to see if skin colour would be an issue?

And I assume its best to try applying once Tet is over?

[jayasia]

by all means apply to the schools u mentioned, they r staffed n run by Brits.

apply as soon as u've finished ur CELTA.

u could very well find some hours winging ur way if u decide to come out before Tet.

but don't bank on it.

i'll pm u when i have more time, point u in the right direction. i know a school....


have fun with the course .

l

[snollygoster]

Great to see someone with a bit of guts!
Hope you succeed beyond your wildest dreams- I hate to see these prejudices win on their dirty little game.

Link here gives some good tips about what to do in Vietnam, and also has other links to School details- who to contact, how to do it, how to get the jobs etc etc.

Hope to see your face here.

MOD EDIT

[Shumba]

Once again, cheers for the help guys - especially for that link snollygoster. Sorry about the late response, I started the CELTA this week - pretty intensive!

pm me whenever is convenient for you jayasia, really appreciate it.

Take care!

[kparsons]

I used to do the recruiting for Apollo and can tell you that race was NEVER an issue for recruitment. I was given the freedom to hire anyone I wanted, and I know that is still the case.

While we didn't have a large percentage of non-white teachers, we did have a fair number, so it's certainly not as cut and dry as the others are making it out to be.

I will agree that there is a degree of racism at play in Vietnam, but I can also tell you that most of the teachers who are given a hard time are Asian -- not black. Students often think of Asian teachers as non-native speakers, despite the fact that they may have grown up in central London or New York or Sydney, etc.

Don't give up hope and make sure you get your applications in -- there are definitely a number of schools that aren't going to make race an issue.

[piscean21]

I can agree with that. I work at Apollo now and my race was not an issue. Due to my background I look "Vietnamese." However, the students have been very nice and, once I explained where I was from, etc. they've had no problems with me. Once you prove that you are a good teacher, they won't have a problem with you.

[TheBee'sKnees]

Hi Shumba!

I too am of mixed race (black and hispanic) and let me tell you...I worked for ILA and although they've got their own issues they have NO problems hiring non-white teachers. There were at least three black teachers in my close circle of friends while i worked there. I know that one of them went on to teach at one of the international schools. Racial prejudice just didn't come up at all in our conversations when it came to work-related things. I'm not saying there aren't schools who will turn you down just for the color of your skin, but I know that ILA is definitely not one of them. I did have some issues with the locals outside of school but those were mainly due to curiosity- not discrimination. And don't be surprised if people call you "Obama" in the streets (or "wife Obama" in my case . It's not meant to be mean. Absolutely PM me if you have any more specific 'being black in vietnam' questions! Cheers.

p.s: I miss Saigon and although it has it's problems (what place doesn't?) I think about it every day and have seriously considered returning in a few months.

[snollygoster]

An interesting (and somewhat amusing) side-line to this "race" discussion:

I am an Australian caucasian, and recently some students who do not fare very well in class (use mobi phones in their handbags thinking the teacher doesnt see type of thing) took an interim exam and didnt do so well.

When the Director questioned them about the reasons, they claimed "our teacher is an Australian, so how can we possibly speak well when he isn't even a native English speaker".

They claimed I was ruining thier otherwise perfect British accent.

(Perhaps I should point out that pronunciation is one of my strong points, and my clear British like accent is the reason I get hired)

Luckily the Director of the school is not flaky like some, and dismissed them with a comment like "Come back when you know what you are talking about".

[flyingmonkey]

According to this person's experience, ILA discriminates against overseas Vietnamese.
http://tuantran.org/home.html

[TheBee'sKnees]

It's a shame that this person had a bad experience as an overseas Vietnamese English teacher back in 2002. But in 2009 teachers at ILA are certainly college educated and I personally know four Vietnamese teachers at ILA. Granted, they were born and raised in English Speaking countries. So although they had different circumstances, I'm afraid Tuan's journal entry doesn't fully apply anymore.

Anyway, overseas Vietnamese will usually run into more trouble at a lot of schools in Vietnam because the students' parents want what they would consider a 'real' foreigner to teach their children. Essentially it would be 'bad for business'.

But black=fine at ILA