Job Discussion Forums

[manowur]

Hello all,

I know the subject may sound confusing, so let me explain.

I am a US passport holder trying to obtain a Saudi work visa as an EFL instructor, but my degree is in Engineering (not to mention, I have a TEFL certificate and a couple years teaching experience). I have been told that if and when I apply at the Saudi embassy in Washington to get the visa, they will reject my application because I don't have a degree in English, Education or some other related field.
Does anyone know if there's any truth to this? I find it hard to believe if there's a school in Saudi ready to sponsor me.
If this is true, is there anyway around this? I've heard the Saudi embassy in Bahrain may be an option as they are less stringent.

Any and all advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Likewise, my apologies if this issue has already been addressed in another post. If indeed it has, please let me know where I can find it.

Thanks in advance.

[floja]

I taught there with an MA in a social science, and some teaching experience. I had no problem with my degrees.

Good luck.

[scot47]

I have come across people teaching English with degreesin just about every subject you can think of.

Microbiology
Law
Theology(of the bible-bashing variety)
Social Science

etc

[manowur]

OK, let me be more specific.
I'm looking for instances of people who have applied for Saudi work visas in the United States (esp. Washington) or Bahrain who didn't have English/Teaching related degrees. What were your experiences?
I know there have to be some people out there.
Again, any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[EFLUndercover]

Manowur,

As long as you have a TEFL certificate in addition to your degree, then you should have no problem. I have two American friends who are now teaching in Saudi and that is how they came in - Bachelor's degree (various subjects) and a TEFL certificate.

You may confirm this by calling the embassy directly or a visa agency such as Travisa or Rush.

[manowur]

EFLUndercover,

Thank you for your feedback.

I actually did contact the embassy, and I was told like what I stated in my original post. If your degree isn�t in English, Education or some other related field, they will not issue you an Employment visa to come over as an EFL Instructor (regardless of if you have a TEFL certificate). I know it seems strange that if you have a teaching qualification it should suffice, but basically, it's the degree that matters most to them. Then again, the person at the embassy didn�t seem sure and could�ve told me anything just to get me off their back. Hence, I started my post to see if there were people out there who could attest to this (i.e., they actually applied and were rejected).

On the other hand, the story about your two friends is encouraging. I am assuming they applied here in the United States (perhaps even Washington?). You also gave a great suggestion about contacting a visa agency to ask about this. Thanks! I�ll do that today.

If there�s anyone else out there who has any stories/information to share, please don�t hesitate to reply or pm me.

Take care.

[veiledsentiments]

The problem with the embassy is that if you talk to different people, you get different answers. Plus they tend to give you the answer that sounds good or what they think you want to hear. Getting a straight accurate answer from Middle Eastern embassies can be a trial. Historically the minimum requirement has been for a BA or 'first degree' in darn near anything plus a TEFL cert.

If I was a betting woman, I'd bet that a minority of those teaching EFL in Saudi have a first degree in education or English.

First get a job offer...

VS

[EFLUndercover]

Manowur,

The two friends I mentioned applied through visa agencies who did the paper work for them and sent it to the embassy in Washington.

They are here in Saudi working now and as I related to you they had first degrees and TEFL certificates.

As VS stated, it comes down to who answers the phone when you call. If you called once per day for 5 days, you'd probably get 5 different answers or variations of the same.

Don't worry. I assure you, if you have a job offer, a degree and a TEFL you're fine. Don't stress yourself. You'll have enough of that once you arrive!

[manowur]

Hello people,

Sorry for the silence, but I�ve been busy trying to get my stuff together to get my degree authenticated by the Saudi Cultural Mission.

VS, I am well aware there are EFLers in Saudi teaching with a basic degree (not necessarily English, Education, etc.) and TEFL cert., but I don�t know any that have come through the embassy in Washington. However, EFLUndercover claims he has friends who�ve done it, so I guess it�s possible.

Anyways, I contacted a few visa agencies yesterday and no one really knew for sure whether it was possible or not. They said they were willing to try though (surprise, surprise - $$$) as long as I had some supporting documentation (TEFL cert., reference letters, etc.).

EFLUndercover, I value your continued encouragement. I have the offer in-hand; it�s just a matter of telling them where to send the visa (Washington or Bahrain) for processing. Plus, being the school year is starting up in a few weeks, I really don�t to waste any precious time or money.

BTW, clause #7 on the list of requirements for a Saudi work visa was rather disheartening:
�A copy of the employment contract signed by both the sponsor and the applicant. The position mentioned in the contract should match the position mentioned in the block visa reference, as should the academic degree the applicant holds and its major.�

Does anyone have any experience acquiring a work visa in Bahrain? I hear it�s a lot easier.

Again, any info. you can share is appreciated.
Til next time.

[veiledsentiments]

[Cleopatra]

[Didah]

Hi there Manowur

I am and have been in a similar situation as you. I am currently going through Visa Hell with the KSA Embassy in Washington, D.C. More on that in a moment. You asked if there were resources out there that may be able to give you a straightforward consistent answer about your visa questions. You might want to contact Diran Visa in Washington, D.C. Their website is: http://diranvisa.com Here is their contact information from the Diran Visa website:

Diran Visa and Passport Service
1010 Vermont Avenue NW, Suite 410
Washington, DC 20005
Tel: 202/638-4328
Fax: 202/638-7441

Email Us: [email protected]

I am not an employee, a shill, nor am I trawling for business for them. Diran Visa specializes in KSA visas. They are currently handling my visa now and have processed a visa for me in the past. They may be able to give you some free information about your KSA questions. Perhaps if I give you a little of my own background and dealings with the KSA Embassy in D.C. it may shed some light on your situation.

(As a side note to the regular contributors to the site, I apologize in advance for going over information all you old Desert Hands know so well � so please be gentle. I am not a very frequent contributor and I have learned a lot and have had some good laughs from most of your posts)

I have been waiting for my KSA work visa to be finalized since the beginning of April. I went through the draconian and invasive physical and the other paperwork which was then submitted to the KSA Embassy in D.C. They told the company that was hiring me that it did not have the proper �Block Visa� on file. Now in my case, I have a degree in English, teaching credential, and a Master�s in TESOL. Ironically, a former colleague of mine, who I recommended for this job and does not have a degree in English but a M.A. in TESOL, submitted his visa paperwork a week before I could complete mine and was issued a visa. Apparently the hiring company had let their Block Visa for English Language Teachers expire. Still, my former colleague was admitted on a technical visa not related to his job. Now, a week later my paperwork is submitted and rejected because it was not mapping to the proper block visa. The company also tried to get me in on a technical visa and it was declined by the KSA Embassy in D.C. � just a week later. I was told by the company that the D.C. embassy was cracking down on issuing visas to people without the proper credentials. I had the proper credentials for the job so the story changed to that my employer did not have the proper block visa on file for English Language Teachers. My company assured me that they had the wasda (sp?) or juice to get me the visa anyway. My visa was rejected again after a stern letter from the cousin of a prince. Then the explanation was that there were new people in the consular/visa section in D.C. who were there to crack down of the issuance of visas. From late April until June, the story from my future employer has been that the situation will be resolved in next week or two � and yet, here I am still in the states.

In the interim, I have learned a lot about KSA visas. While I was waiting for my visa, two other companies wanted to hire me for similar work in Saudi. I even went back to Virginia to go through the hiring process for one of the companies which included a second draconian and invasive KSA physical. This company could get me out four days after the physical. Apparently they had the right kind of block visas. On top of that, I was the only candidate out of five there that actually had a degree in English and only one of two that had a masters degree and only mine was in the relevant field. These were all jobs to teach English to a branch of the Saudi military and there was no problem with any of their degrees.

I explained this to my current future employer and they pleaded with me to stay the course that I should have my visa any day � that was in June. Many of you wise pundits out there may say �why the hell didn�t you take the other job?� I�ll answer that question: The one I am waiting for is one of the last really well paying jobs with perks like the old days in the Tragic Kingdom. I can wait and hopefully not for much longer.

About the fickle visa situation� I worked for another company in the Kingdom a few years ago where I did not have take a physical or even be tested for HIV. I was issued a business visa by the KSA embassy in D.C. which was converted to a work visa with an iquama in the Kingdom. I know this is rare, however, I think it was because this was an American company and the type of contract they have.

As many have pointed out on this site, there is not consistency to what the policy is on granting working visas in the KSA. I think a lot has to do with the clout that the company has and how bad they need people. As for attempting to do this through Bahrain � I have explored that route. I was informed that the proper block visa has to be on file at the KSA embassy in Manama. Dealing with the KSA in DC is bad enough; however, dealing with them in Bahrain is a really special experience.

Sorry for the long winded answer. I hope you get some solace in this. Good luck with your visa process. Unfortunately when it comes to the KSA bureaucrats at the D.C. embassy, getting a straight answer from them is like attempting to nail Jell-O to the wall. Getting the visa seems to be even more evasive but not impossible -- especially with your engineering background.

Hang in there!

[veiledsentiments]

Oh... you must come back and tell us if you ever manage to get that elusive visa... 5 months and counting...

VS
(it's "wasta" BTW)

[manowur]

Hello Didah,

Sorry for the late response. Been kind of busy/lazy. Labor Day weekend�what can I say?
First and foremost, I want to thank you for the elaborate message. What wonderful detail. I feel so honored you took the time out of your day to help me in this regard. There was NO need for any apology whatsoever.
Thanks also for the visa agency info. I meant to call them on Friday, but didn�t get a chance (part of my busy/lazy mood). Come first thing Tuesday morning though, I�m on it.

To address your ordeal, how shall I start�how about �5 MONTHS AND COUNTING?!?!?!?!?�
You�re better than me (and I think a lot of other people out there). It must be some job to have you holding on for so long. I feel bad for you though for all that they�ve put you through. I really hope the situation gets resolved soon, and that the job not only meets, but exceeds your expectations.

Your colleague was so lucky to get brought in on a technical visa. If I was so fortunate, all my problems would go away (well, at least the main one). Someone else actually suggested to me that I ask the school recruiting me if they can furnish a technical visa for me as well. I�ve submitted my request, but still no response.

Now the fact you were denied entry on a technical visa with degrees in English and TESOL somewhat proves the point that I�ve been trying to make all along. Also, you�ve confirmed that you�ve heard that are indeed cracking down on issuing visas to people to without proper qualifications in Washington. Thumbs up!

Now Didah, I know you probably put some considerable time and effort into your last response, and I am really thankful as I benefitted a lot. However, if you could please enlighten me about your experiences in Bahrain, I would more than grateful. I�m really kind of surprised you had a hard time, because I�ve only heard good feedback from people who�ve processed in Bahrain. Not to mention, I am leaning towards it now unless I get more positive feedback about Washington.

Take care, and hope to hear from you soon. BTW, nice analogy about the KSA bureaucrats; couldn�t have put it better myself.

Likewise, anyone else who wants to get in on the action, please feel free to share your thoughts/experiences.


manowur

[Didah]

Hi Manowur,

Thank you for your kind words. I am glad that I could help. Because of your situation, I felt compelled to give you at least a little background � with my similar situation. It sounds to me that you are doing a lot of the legwork for the visa on your own. It would be much easier if your company had more involvement and an agency like Diran acting between you and the KSA embassy. At the very least, I hope these guys are paying up front for things like your physical. The one that the KSA requires with all that lab work is pretty expensive.

As for the Bahrain Option � Don�t go there unless you are directed to do so by the company that is hiring you. Your visa is tied to the company and you can't just fly solo and walk in the Saudi embassy and expect to have an easier of more successful experience than what you are currently going through in the states. If you are directed to go to Bahrain, the company should pick up your hotel tab and expenses. I have been down this road and was positioned to me as a last resort if they don�t get the proper block visa on file in D.C. and that they had the correct ELT visa (which they don�t) at the KSA embassy in Bahrain. If I was directed to go to Bahrain, I would get my travel and expenses paid but would not be put on the payroll until I was in the Kingdom (very generous � don�t you think). In Bahrain, you will experience a whole new level of Saudi bureaucracy in Manama without the pretense of civility that they somewhat put on at the consular section in Washington. The issue is still going to be whether or not the KSA embassy in Bahrain or Washington has the proper Block Visa to issue to you. I don�t know if you are planning to go to work for a university, ARAMCO contractor, or one of the many DoD projects out there. Depending on your job will also have an influence on how easy it will be to get your Saudi work visa. The key again is that the company that is employing you has the proper visa and justification for you filling that visa requirement with your credentials. As I stated in my last post, I went through a second interview process with another company with a group of teachers who did not have English degrees. Yet, this company had the �Wasta,� juice or influence to have the ELT visas approved for their contract in the Kingdom. I could have deployed to Saudi within four days after my physical was approved providing my other documentation was on file with them. From my own personal experience and in my opinion I think this is the major factor. Despite what the law states, there are a lot of intangibles with getting that illusive Saudi work visa. A lot depends on the company having the right block visa and any additional influence the company has in pushing the visa through. Clearly, with all the English teaching jobs posted for Saudi Arabia, there are plenty of ELT visas available to teachers that are employed by companies that have the proper Block Visa � or just the influence to get the proper visa. In my case, I believe the reason that my visa was initially denied while my colleague received an unrelated visa was for a couple of reasons. First, I was informed that this company had let its ELT block visa lapse and couldn�t be bothered buying more visas. They have been successful in bringing English teachers in on the same technical visa as the technicians in the past, however, it just so happened that my application landed on the desk at the consular section less than a week after my colleague received his visa. Second, this is where the intangibles figure into the equation. I do not know what kind of politics is going on in the background between the Saudi government and this company but I feel this could have some influence.

As for dealing with the KSA Embassy in Bahrain � I know colleagues who have had decent experiences such as when they are getting a visa for their spouse. In my case, I had to get my Saudi work visa transferred to a new passport without having the original passport. Yet, I had a copy of my iquama, work credentials, and the original Saudi employment visa. Still, my company had to messenger my iquama and original documents to me in Manama and what should have then taken a couple of days took more than a week of jumping through ridiculous hoops for this obnoxious bureaucrat. Finally, the room where the visas are processed has all the charm of a rundown police station. The air conditioning does not work very well and the fans don�t help much with about a hundred or so desperate people crowded in there waiting for their turn to go to the window and be rejected. When the visas are ready, one of the Saudi bureaucrats behind the Lexan plastic barrier that separates the Saudis from us mere infidels dumps a box of passports on his side of the Plexiglas while a swarm of guest workers from Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, or Pakistan rush the window to get their passport back with that work visa. I just sat there. One of the bureaucrats was a little perplexed I think that I didn�t just jump for the big passport grab. Eventually, mine was fished out of the pile and it was returned through one of the windows.

The bottom line is you shouldn�t go to Bahrain and try to get a visa on your own. It is up to your employer and where the proper block visa is located. I do know of people who went to Bahrain for the visa if there was not a visa on file at the embassy in D.C. and if their job was deemed to be critical. In that case, the company paid their way to Bahrain to finish the process. They also had all of the other documentation completed as well. Work with your employer and don�t make any rash decisions. By the way, did you look at the ad for Booz Allen Hamilton on the Employment site here? I know that they have no problem getting visas. The downside is that you would teach first year naval cadets at the King Fahd Naval Academy � which is no Annapolis. However, it is a good company with decent pay and benefits.

Good luck and hang in there.