Job Discussion Forums

iain · Joined: 09 May 2007 Posts: 15 Location: northern italy

For some TEFL becomes a long-term career, for far more it is a short-term 'experience' or stop-gap occupation.

What do you think the implications of a 'fast-turnover' profession are:

a) for teacher-trainers
b) for students
c) for employers

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Lack of consistency in all of those.

More work (stability?) for the teacher-trainers, though.

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

ON a positive note, high turnover means that there are always new, gung ho teachers out there.

GambateBingBangBOOM · Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

spanglish · Joined: 21 May 2009 Posts: 742 Location: working on that

On the negative side: teachers don't want to commit ("can I sign a 6 month/3 month contract?" "I want to backpack through South America while teaching") and owners want to pay as little as possible and students can only afford so much. End result: only those who travel to London or the US or study at prestigious universities actually learn English.

RollingStone · Joined: 19 Jan 2009 Posts: 138

You good folks should board the next plane to Japan then. Apparently, according to the J forum, the problem in J is not that ESL instructors generally wish to stay short term. In fact, instructors there in entry level ESL schools tend to stay `4 years on average`. That means that for every person that stays 1 year there is someone that stays 8!

Its funny though that pretty much every other ESL country in the economic south experiences the opposite....

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

In Peru, moving up is done through connections, someone has retired, or worse, died.

Lubria · Joined: 10 Sep 2009 Posts: 5 Location: North Italy

For some TEFL becomes a long-term career, for far more it is a short-term 'experience' or stop-gap occupation.

What do you think the implications of a 'fast-turnover' profession are:

a) for teacher-trainers
b) for students
c) for employers

In simple terms - It isn't good for anyone. Teachers will always have low wages, students will lack continuity and the schools will rarely get motivated teachers.

If teachers stopped treating this "profession" as a working holiday things would improve for everyone. In my experience, most long-term career teachers usually go freelance or to more professional institutions where the money and conditions are better. This is obviously a loss to languge schools. Unless schools start investing in their employees (as any other industry would), they will continue to watch them walk out the door. That only leaves new/inexperienced teachers available to the schools.

My question to iain is - What is your motive for asking? Are you a school owner looking to improve things?

I'm only interested because I have been in North Italy for fifteen years and not come across an owner that really cares about his/her teachers.

spanglish · Joined: 21 May 2009 Posts: 742 Location: working on that

That's quite discouraging, Lubria!

Are there any respected for-profit schools out there that teach well and treat their teachers well? i.e. the kind of place a well qualified, experienced teacher would want to teach?

Lubria · Joined: 10 Sep 2009 Posts: 5 Location: North Italy

Iain,
To answer my own question - yes you are a school owner. Should have done my research before asking! I did in fact meet you many years ago when you had a school called Callan, now SYM. To be honest, one of the more reputable schools I know and one I have occasionally recommended to friends.

If you are looking to improve the teacher/school relationship then you are well positioned to do it. You would have an uphill struggle I am sure but in the end the teachers, students and ultimately your business would benefit. Most of your competition couldn�t give a damn about teacher welfare.

Good luck - and hats off to you for at least trying.

Lubria · Joined: 10 Sep 2009 Posts: 5 Location: North Italy

Spanglish - The answer is probably not in the for profit sector. However, there are other places for a well qualified teacher to go.

My point is that unless schools start treating this as a legitimate industry and invest in their employees, like all other areas of business, good teachers will never take them seriously. As an example - here in Italy (and no doubt the world over) most schools will offer a nine month contract. At the end of the contract the teacher is on his/her own. No salary or even a retainer for the other two or three months. However, the school expects the teacher to dutifully turn up for work the following September. The problem for long term teachers is obvious - mortgage/rent, bills, groceries etc. which soon adds up when there�s nothing coming in for three months.

I know that suits some but the point here is longevity. The school demands commitment and loyalty from the teacher but isn�t willing to return it.

If any other type of business hiring people from abroad treated their employees the way EFL schools do, they just wouldn�t enjoy any reputation and ultimately success.

Schools really need to start addressing this. The ones that do will attract and keep those well-qualified experienced teachers that have disappeared into the freelance world.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject:

Problem is two sided though- schools don't invest in teachers, in many cases. BUT how can you invest in someone who's leaving anyway?

Two years ago, I had an opening for a teacher training position- all training paid, and it's VALUABLE training. 3 Year commitment required.

Taking that particular training course, at my employer's expense, has opened a whole world of opportunities. It's given me the chance to freelance on three continents. For good wages. It's training worth having.

But there weren't ANY applicants amongst the teachers working for us then, because the three year commitment seemed "too long."

It may be different in other places. But within Ecuador, of course we get transient teachers. The economy doesn't bring in any other kind.

I DO NOT see my teacher training work in Ecuador as ripping anybody off. I see it as offer the best training I can in the time period available. Helping short termers to be the best teachers they can for the year or two they'll be doing it. What's wrong with that?

Best,
Justin

PS- I think the high turnover does help us "lifers" in some ways- there are so few teachers in EFL with much experience. When he had ten years experience as a US high school teacher, my dad was still one of the junior guys on the team. With my nearly ten years in EFL, I'm amongst the most experienced applicants in a lot of schools I've recently applied to...