Job Discussion Forums

[madhatter109]

Hi there,
I'm a 26 year old American who is interested in working in either the Middle East or Japan. I've been teaching ESL for 2 1/2 years and feel extremely confident in my lessons. I've been noticing that most Middle Eastern countries require a CELTA or TEFL degree to obtain a work visa. My current employer told me that it's probably unnecessary to spend the time/money to go through the month long CELTA course as it will just re-hash everything I've learned through experience.

Is it possible to get a job in the Middle East with only an online certification along with 2 years experience and a bachelors degree?

[spiral78]

First, in most job markets (not all) simply having done the job is not considered sufficient, as there is no real assurance that you've done it well.

The key to a CELTA is the supervised teaching practice, with feedback on what you have done by experienced teacher trainers. Online certs do not offer this component, in most cases.

I obviously do not know who your current employer is, or how he/she knows that what you do conforms to what a CELTA course would define as best practice. More information might be helpful here - is your employer a CELTA trainer, or otherwise highly qualified in the field? If so, a letter of recommendation from him/her describing what you do in the classroom might be helpful.

Perhaps you are, indeed, a good teacher without any training. However, unless you have some certification that documents your understanding and application of the approaches and methods accepted in the field, prospective employers cannot be certain of this.

Second, if you read through some of the posts in the ME forums, you'll find that the desirable jobs there require CELTA (or equivalent - an onsite course with supervised teaching practice) and related MA + a few years of teaching post MA. I think you'll find that without the postgrad qualifications, the jobs you could get in the ME would be with dodgy employers and minimal pay.

Japan, I have read, does not necessarily require a certification. Glenski and others more knowledgeable of this will certainly be along shortly - but in the meantime reading up on threads in both the ME and Japan forums below should help you out quite a bit.

[fluffyhamster]

While successfully completing a cert may prove that one isn't an absolutely hopeless teacher, I'm not that convinced they always do that much to help one become a truly good teacher (that is, better than the "standard demanded"); so while certs may offer what is 'accepted' practice, will that remain or have ever really been so acceptable to you personally (or the people you'll be teaching-conversing with), let alone be the best practice around? I doubt it, and you should too. Save your money has always been my advice (or at least put it towards something that counts for more...not that even MAs are nowadays necessarily going to pay financially).

I mean, when the trainers themselves (and remember, these are UCLES or whatever's fully-certified trainers, and thus really should know better) may start doing worryingly "standard" things like over-presenting the language by way of mixing patter with exemplar* (see for example the following regarding the model presentations of 'present perfect', that old chestnut, that I had to endure as a trainee: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=721052#721052 ), then you know something is wrong and that your money was wasted in many respects. That is, some so-called "qualified" trainers may have precious little to impart (or may seem to want to impart the bare minimum), and are thus in no position really to be judging what makes "good" teaching. You'd often be better off reading a book than listening to them pontificate about a load of old handwaving ultimately.

All that being said, it is certainly easy to form an opinion (and perhaps too high a one) of one's own teaching when one is "doing one's own thing" so to speak. (Not that e.g. reading, quietly researching, discussing teaching with colleagues or online etc, will count for much either in the eyes of those who "know what�s best for you" (=your money in their pockets LOL)).

Anyway, be all that as it may, I can't speak about the ME, but in Japan a cert doesn't count for much at the entry level (where just a degree is sufficient to get a work visa) � certainly, I've never had an employer coo impressed and appreciatively whenever I've presented them with my CTEFLA (nor even then the postgrad dip in Chinese LOL), and there is no difference in pay compared potentially to ostensibly unqualified and/or inexperienced colleagues. But I guess a cert could give you a slight edge in an increasingly competitive marketplace.


*The difference (which is hardly discussed in ELT - strange that, eh!) will be by no means obvious to students in classes where English-only (i.e. the "Direct" method) is the "rule" (but a rule out of simple necessity rather than any real consideration or choice, given the strictly monolingual [in]capability of most cert-qualified English teachers). Meaning that the teacher is free to drone on in as unnatural/discoursally-unconvincing (by the standards of real English, as opposed to some 'Classroom English' subspecies) a way as he or she pleases. And to think teachers are often ultimately paid as, simply to more or less "be", native speakers! A student could probably learn as much if not more from just sitting in a pub.

[naturegirl321]

You could try to do a diploma course, such as DELTA or Trinity. Though I think they might require having an entry level cert. I would get either the cert or the diploma. Many jobs require it.

[spiral78]

It would be pretty difficult to pass a DELTA or Trinity course with no prior formal training at all. Nor would either of these get the OP the job he/she wants in the ME.

Additional training is always helpful, both from a classroom and a hiring perspective, but trying to do an advanced course without even the basics behind one would usually be a recipe for failure.

So, back to the original question: would a CELTA help this poster get a job in Japan or the ME?

[tttompatz]

[Chris Westergaard]

I completely agree with Naturgirl, shoot for a DELTA instead. You might not meet the requirements, but find out what you need and then do that instead. The DELTA diploma will give you a serious boost in pay and job possibilities. Don't waste the money on a CELTA if you don't need to

*The Delta WILL require you to have a previous cert, but it might be something basic and not a 4-week course. If you are serious about teaching and you don't plan on setting up your own school or going into some kind of private business, you're probably going to want to get this qualification anyway. Why get a 4-week CELTA if it is possible to just get the better qualification



Cheers,

Chris
Read my blog
http://teflpragueandabroad.blogspot.com

[spiral78]

OP stated he/she is specifically interested in ME and Japan.

DELTA won't get him/her a decent job in the ME, and it's not likely needed to work in Japan.

Clarification: I'm entirely pro-DELTA and other quals in general - it just doesn't seem to be an answer to what the poster in this thread is asking.
He/she doesn't even want to spring for a CELTA unless it's necessary - suggesting higher/more expensive/time consuming stuff - which still won't get him/her where he/she says he/she wants to go isn't likely to be productive.



I'm now dizzy on gender-designations. Heady stuff:-)

[madhatter109]

Thanks for the replies! I'm kinda in limbo right now. I've got 2 1/2 years under my belt and don't know what to do next. I've been to Korea (it's alright, would go back for the right paycheck) and I've been teaching at a vocational school in the USA for the past 1.5 years.

I want to get out of credit card debt and I currently have the travel bug. I heard about the Middle East paychecks and it sounds like the right way to go for adventure and money. I don't wanna get scammed into a shady deal though.

I just figured a CELTA and trip to the ME would be the way to go. Any other ideas? Would I make a lot of money in Japan? I'm not too crazy about Korea. It wasn't bad and wasn't good....plus the money isn't that great (at least where I was...maybe someone can get me a uni job?).

I've got the travel bug! Help a guy out!

[spiral78]

I suggest you go the the General Middle East forum below. With just a CELTA, you won't find those lucrative jobs in the ME - but there are lots of regulars who post on that ME forum who don't weigh in here. They can give you more and better specific advice.

[Glenski]

[artemisia]

Korea does sound like your best bet. Do you know there's a separate board for Korea requiring separate registration to post there?

Re: ME. Yes, check the ME board and do some reading there first.
Here's what one new poster asked:

[naturegirl321]

For the ME, Ii've heard employers prefer on site courses. Distance MAs are accepted, but not as much as the on site MAs.

For good jobs in Japan, I'm pretty sure you'll need at least an MA, publications, and probably a bit of Japanese.

[PierogiMonster]

Hi

I'm in a similar position, wondering whether to go for a CELTA (the time and the money are not problems) or straight for a DELTA.

I'm in my early forties, six years EFL experience, PGCE (post 16 sector), BA English, but no CELTA.

I'd like to work for the British Council and/or be a teacher trainer in a year or two. I was thinking of applying for www.thedistancedelta.com but a local B Council trainer said even many experienced teachers benefit from a CELTA (e.g. forcing self-reflection and exposing our tired-and-tested methods) before DELTA. Also, I can't find a 'local tutor' required for a distance course.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

[naturegirl321]

I'd go for the Trinity Dip or DELTA.