Job Discussion Forums

[evolving81]

OK, this might be an odd question. I had a friend who was arrested and said that the jail offered ESL courses. Has anyone worked in this kind of job? I suppose it's a different kind of culture shock but might be interesting.

Thanks,
Mitch

[jgmodlin]

I work with a woman who worked as an ESL teacher with the Federal prison system. She spoke well of the job, the teaching resources, and compensation package. I believe she worked in Florida too. If I am not mistaken, you have to be age 36 or younger as there is some training that you'll need to do, some of which is physical.

[Stephen Jones]

John Slattery is the person with most experience on that. PM him to let him know of the existence of the thread.

[Henry Chinaski]

A colleague of mine at a college back in Australia worked 3 days a week in a prison and two days a week in the college. He really enjoyed the work and found the salary and benefits to his satisfaction. The two different jobs offered him some nice variety in his working week. He said it could be tedious at times with security checks and things like that but generally found the actual teaching quite rewarding. It is not the kind of job you see advertised frequently but if you are in the right place at the right time it is probably a good gig. As prisons in Australia are government run, ESL gigs there are government positions and therefore the conditions and pay are generally better than private colleges. Also there is no chance that you will be fired at the whim of an agent or crackhead Korean /Chinese college owner.

[anyway]

I've seen a lot of ads for GED/ESL positions at 'correctional facilities' in New Mexico, but I think they required state certification. The pay was mid to upper 20s I believe...

[johnslat]

Dear evolving81,
As Mr. Jones reported, I worked at the New Mexico State Penitentiary teaching primarily GED (but, given the meager English of some of my students, ESL was sometimes unofficially required as well.)
anyway is correct about the position requiring state certification (but, if you aren't certified, you can still be hired and given time to acquire that certification,) but he's incorrect about the salary; it's in the 50K range.
And while anyway has seen many ads, that must have been a while back since there is absolutely NO hiring going on now due to the economic situation here. In fact, as the last hired, I was let go in February when the state mandated a 5% reduction in "non-essential personnel" (and, as we all know so very well, education is "non-essential" - essential personnel carry guns.)
While I liked the job (and the salary), I'll admit the atmosphere was very oppressive - not so much because of the inmates, who were among the best behaved and motivated students I've ever taught, but because of the correctional officers and other staff. With few exceptions, they were (and, I'm sure, still are) all dim bulbs with sadistic (in some cases extremely so)
tendencies. And they went out of their way to express their scorn for any attempt to "rehabilitate" inmates and their disdain for anyone (teachers, counselors, medical staff, etc.) who was part of that process. They constantly ridiculed, harassed, and impeded all such efforts.
Now i spent nineteen years in Saudi Arabia, so I'm fairly used to what many would likely term an "oppressive environment." But the penitentiary was harder to shake off; the "ambiance" followed you home. And so, for the first time in my over thirty years of teaching, I had a job that I really didn't enjoy going to every day.
As a result, when I got laid off, I definitely had mixed feelings: I certainly miss the salary/benefits, but, on the other hand, I'm so very glad to be back teaching at the community college, where going to class is a pleasure.
Let me know if you want/need any more info.
Regards,
John

[Sadebugo]

I know there are also federal government positions that involve teaching in prisons but I don't know all the details.

Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/

[zeke0606]

johnslat is very correct! Especially the salary and benefits - however there is not enought time (summer vacation) to psychologically regroup!
I taught for over 11 years in the California Department of Corrections - both juvenile and adult. I taught in self contained classrooms.
John is being very kind to the knuckle dragging mouth breathers that work as guards!
I had some of the very best supervisors and was allowed a wide berth in organizing classes as mentor to orient and train new teaching staff, very good at hustling book companies to give me huge discounts and free shipping, a very high standing with the five major prison gangs and most of the older lieutenants and captains and above on the security side. I earned the respect of the higher levels of security due to the respect that I earned working with the inmates and the information I was given from the inmates to avert many deadly confrontations between the races.

It was a great time and really good teaching experience! You will learn quite a bit about yourself working on the inside!

Zeke

[zeke0606]

Sadebugo -

To work in a federal prison - you must be under 35 at the time of your appointment. Period - no if's, and's, or but's! And have all the credentials, education ect ect!
Their reasoning is that EVERYONE is or will be required to carry a weapon and shoot another human being in the federal system.
The state systems also require this clause, however as a teacher or plumber or secretary you are the very last one selected to get into the 'shooting matches'!
I was trained and sent to Vietnam in 1969 and understand the emotions of leveling a gun sight at another human being and watching that person explode with the rounds hitting him. So, I might suggest if you are a little sane -- stick with the state prison systems.

Zeke

[johnslat]

Dear zeke0606,

"The state systems also require this clause . . ."

Which clause - under 35 (I was 66 & 66 at the time I worked at the New Mexico State Pen) or the "everyone will be required to carry a weapon" -
no teachers or support staff other than the "correctional officers" were allowed to carry weapons (I left my Swiss Army knife in the car before going through the metal detector?)
Now, I was also in Vietnam (USMC 1965 - 1966), shot expert with the rifle and .45, and am quite sure that I can handle a weapon better (and shoot a lot more accurately) than many, if not all, of the correctional officers. And I will admit that in order to get a little more respect from those "officers," I let it be known that I was a Vietnam vet.
We also could not carry cell phones or any "counterband" - which, at times, seemed to be just about everything except our clothes. I even had books I brought in taken away. We could also not provide the prisoners with pencils or pens (which made writing rather difficult.)
If you have good supervisors, that helps a lot. I had a great one when I started, but he was replaced by a total jerk, a martinet who was more "correctional" than the "correctional officers." This doofus wouldn't even let us use CDs in the computer lab (the previous supervisor had) so the on-line college students couldn't save any of their work (his reasoning: CDS could be fashioned into "deadly weapons" - same as pencils and pens.) And this was at a Level 2 facility, mostly drug and sex offenders.
Meanwhile, at Levels 5 and 6 (maximum security) under another supervisor, inmates could be issued pens and pencils to be collected after class.)
Regards,
John

[Sashadroogie]

Sweet lord! I can barely even imagine what that is like. Certainly puts teaching whiny teens into perspective.

[spiral78]

I have a stupid question regarding the subject line of this thread.
Is there some official distinction between a prison and a jail?

[santi84]

[johnslat]

Dear santi84,

The distinction's the same in the USA. You're right about its being uncomfortable for women - and it didn't make much difference whether they were younger or older.
That, in fact, is how I ended up with the sex offenders - traded places with a woman who was initially assigned there, but she was getting too much harassment. You might think it was from the inmates there; nope, it was the guards.

Regards,
John

[zeke0606]

johnslat-
Once again I am in your debt. I was not clear and you were gracious to ask for some clear thoughts about that.
The age limitation is only in federal prison employment.
The weapon requirement is only in federal employment.
There is no age limitation in state prison employment.
The weapon 'clause' is in California - I assumed it was universal through out the USA. I made a mistake about that. And you are very correct about mobile phones as MAJOR contraband.
I am sorry if anyone thought that teachers or anyone would be able to carry a weapon - in federal service, when I applied, I was told in no uncertain terms that the weapon and age requirements were non-negotiable. But non-security staff were the very last on the list to be employed as shooters. I was far to old to be employed in the federal system - so I pushed the envelope asking questions.

John, I too could out shoot most any of the guards. I had the entire 'goon squad' as friends and did shoot on their range. Most weapons were not cared for and needed the range master's attention daily! I was also very good friends with the SERT Team - the sharp shooters - whose men and women could shoot the eye out of a newt in the dark of the moon around a corner. And their weapons were NOT shared and functioned very well. And the inmate could only guess if this squad existed.

I never had many sex offenders and in California - they are in the general population. I had mostly murders, murderous assaulter, axe murders, and essentially the tough guys. And we had computers and disks - which had to be monitored and checked in and out, tons of pencils and pens. One year I (personally) ordered $22,865.97 of 'stuff' - mostly for my classroom that I shared with the day time teacher. Most of the money went into book sets (Time-Life and the like) and Scantron scanners and supplies.

I preferred the juvenile prison - the security staff was less prone to beat the boys and there were no weapons -- lots and lots of hand cuffs and those plastic tie straps. The boys would have gang fights where the adults would go to war with cell made weapons and some would be shot.

John, my direct supervisor wrote me a letter of commendation for saving another staff in a medical emergency. After giving me this document, he sent me to his bosses' office for a letter of reprimand for being late (we were in the staff dining room half way inside the prison when the emergency happened) and a verbal thanks for assisting my friend and co-worker..............