Job Discussion Forums

[london_chico]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum - I've decided recently that I fancy a career change - I work in the civil service in Britain but have reached the end of my tether with sitting behind spreadsheets all day and the endless bureaucracy, and want to try something more direct, and I've always had a desire to work abroad.

I'm therefore looking into TEFL, and considering Ecuador as I want to go somewhere Spanish speaking to improve my Spanish, and many friends have told me it's a great country to be in. I'd be looking to go next spring in April/may, so would be really grateful if some of you could help with some basic questions:
� It seems it doesn�t matter too much when you arrive in Ecuador in terms of finding work, is this true?
� I�m looking at the Southern Cross CELTA or EIL SIT course � any views on which is best, pros and cons? The southern cross one appears to be 5 weeks instead of the usual 4, will this make it slightly less intense and more bearable?
� I hear VISA issues are tough for Ecuador � their embassy says here http://www.consuladoecuador.org.uk/Embajada_del_Ecuador/Visas_files/VISA_REQUIREMENTS_24-09-2009.pdf that they require conformation from your employer of your monthly salary to get a VISA CATEGORY 12�IX visa. Obviously I wouldn�t be employed so how would I go about this?
� If I do a CELTA or SIT course are they likely to be able to help find me decent work, how much might I expect to earn? I don�t expect a fortune, that�s not the reason I�m going, but enough to be comfortable.
� I would prefer to work with children/teenagers than with adults (I�ve had enough working with adults!), is this realistic and where are the best places for this kind of work?
� Finally and slightly unrelated, I�m also looking at Mexico, but it seems to be more important when you arrive and the hiring season isn�t until August, is this right?

Many thanks for all your help, the amount of information out there is pretty bewildering!

Cheers,

Neil

[Justin Trullinger]

Hi there-

I have a good friend who spent quite a few years as a civil servant in the UK- he's quite insane now, so good for you for getting our while you can! Personally, I've been in TESOL for quite a few years- leads to a wholly different kind of insanity.

A few thoughts-

� It seems it doesn�t matter too much when you arrive in Ecuador in terms of finding work, is this true?

Sort of true- language institutes hire throughout the year. If you're hoping for kids or teens, though- a school would be a better bet. They tend to hire in August or September in the highlands, in December, January, or February on the coast. Personally, I'd look to make some contacts about this before arrival.


� I�m looking at the Southern Cross CELTA or EIL SIT course � any views on which is best, pros and cons? The southern cross one appears to be 5 weeks instead of the usual 4, will this make it slightly less intense and more bearable?

Couldn't say. I have a Trinity cert, which was four weeks, bearable but hard. I'm also an SIT trainer, and have usually done the four week intensive courses- it takes some focus, but isn't, in and of itself, unsustainable. I worked on some 8 week half time courses a while ago- didn't seem to reduce stress on participants, but just to make it last longer.

Probably the best way to know about the intensiveness vs quality of life issues is to get in touch with course graduates. Either center you're considering, and probably any reputable center, will be happy to put you in touch with recent grads.


� I hear VISA issues are tough for Ecuador � their embassy says here http://www.consuladoecuador.org.uk/Embajada_del_Ecuador/Visas_files/VISA_REQUIREMENTS_24-09-2009.pdf that they require conformation from your employer of your monthly salary to get a VISA CATEGORY 12�IX visa. Obviously I wouldn�t be employed so how would I go about this?

Visa laws are a bit of a pain, but not as bad as all that. Again- a training center should be willing to point you through the procedure, and provide some documentation of what you'll be doing in country to satisfy the consul.

What most teacher trainees in Ecuador do is to come on a 12-IX Actos de Comercio kind of visa, and then transfer to the visa that their employer uses once employed.

Other options that some choose:

Get a job beforehand. If you're able to cyber job search, and are comfortable choosing a job before arrival, then you can avoid some hassles by going straight onto your employers visa.

Coming on a tourist visa. This is one I don't advise- but a few trainees on our upcoming November course may go that way. Because they plan to go home for Christmas, it can work out well this time of year. (Because they can come, get the cert, look around, then go back to their country of origin to arrange a visa IF they decide they like it here)


� If I do a CELTA or SIT course are they likely to be able to help find me decent work, how much might I expect to earn? I don�t expect a fortune, that�s not the reason I�m going, but enough to be comfortable.

There's a lot of variation in teacher salaries- Quito average in a language institute would be $600 to $800 per month, which isn't lavish, but is livable. Universities and colegios can go both higher and lower than this. Some private schools pay up to $2000 per month or a bit more, and it's possible, though not usual, for recent TESOL grads to get into this category. (It's happened occasionally, but usually either when a school loses a teacher suddenly and is desperate, or when the TESOL grad has prior experience in their home country.)


� I would prefer to work with children/teenagers than with adults (I�ve had enough working with adults!), is this realistic and where are the best places for this kind of work?

Possible- not even too hard. WHat dates are you thinking of? Dates matter more than for work with adults, but other than that, not too much difficulty.


� Finally and slightly unrelated, I�m also looking at Mexico, but it seems to be more important when you arrive and the hiring season isn�t until August, is this right?

Can't really say, as I've only really vacationed in Mexico. There's an SIT center in Oaxaca, though, who would know more. If this looks like a serious interest, I'm sure someone with Mexico knowledge will chime in.


Many thanks for all your help, the amount of information out there is pretty bewildering!

And thank YOU for doing your research beforehand. Nothing gets on our nerves, as "lifers" in this field, more than newbies who turn up without a clue.


All the best,
Justin

PS- You should know, or may already: I try to be helpful on these forums, but due to the topic of your post, I could be seen to have an agenda. I'm a trainer and program director of the SIT TESOL course in Quito- you may be in touch with me already for all I know, but if not, feel free.

J

[london_chico]

Hi Justin,

Many thanks for taking the time to give those detailed responses, really helpful. I will probably be in contact with you in your official capacity at some point, so it's good to know who you are.

It looks like the main thing I need to think about is dates to make sure I can get the kind of work I want - alternatively is it possible to get short term work in an institute to tide me over until the school year starts, or would they prefer to tie me into a long contract? What are schools like to work in, do they have the huge class sizes hear about in Asia, or are they smaller and easier to actually 'teach ' in?

I will endeavour to prepare myself as best as possible, I find it amazing people go into something like this withoutdoing research. Teaching doesn't seem to me something to go into lightly, I wouldn't have wanted to be taught by someone on vacation with no experience whatsoever so why should anyone else?!

Cheers again,

neil

[Justin Trullinger]

Another cool thing about Ecuador is that we have two school years- if you're flexible about where you live. Quito, and most of the highlands, is on what we call "a�o academico serrano," which means the school year is similar to the northern hemisphere.

On the coast, for a variety of reasons that frankly baffle me, they're on the opposite school year, like Chile or Argentina.

It's been fairly common for TESOL grads to take temporary work while waiting for the job they really want to open up, though this can sometimes confuse visa issues.

So there are options.


best,
Justin


PS- Things like group sizes depend on individual schools- hard to generalize. I've been in schools with 6 students per group. I've also taught 48 five year olds at once.

[just_a_mirage]

I�ve been teaching for several years in Guayaquil. As far as class size goes, its all over the board. I teach at a high school where I have an average of about 24 students per class. At the university level, I teach about 25 at a time, and at the English institute where I work, I have from 6 to 15 students per class, depending on the level.
If you have long-term employment, and a cedula, you likely will receive a contract for your work. If you work short-term, you will likely need to go to SRI and get a RUC number which is similar to a social security number in the states. Then you can get invoices printed so that you can bill your employer.

[Atlan Training]

Hi Neil

I agree with Justin that you're making a good decision! And your friends are right � Ecuador is a great place to live and to study Spanish.

I'm the Director of Teacher Training at Southern Cross in Ecuador. Maybe I can help you with your questions . . .

I don't know of anyone who has had difficulty getting the 12-IX. You can perhaps get a statement from your current or former employer. As Justin says though, there are other options.

There is a lot of work and there are availabilities year round. Every graduate of our courses who has sought work in Ecuador has got a job. We have relationships with employers here who preferentially hire graduates of our course. We have an active placement service for our graduates. You can expect to earn a relatively high salary with a CELTA. The language academy associated with Southern Cross Teacher Training pays about $1000 a month starting salary and only hires British CELTA-qualified teachers. Higher salaries are paid by the private universities, up to $2000 a month in the cities, which makes for a very comfortable standard of living. Generally though, you should have a Masters degree in addition to the CELTA for those kinds of jobs though.

You can easily find work with young learners. There are several good schools and elite prep academies in Ecuador, in addition to children's classes at private language academies.

Both Southern Cross and EIL have got very good reputations. Both the CELTA and the SIT TESOL have global recognition, though the CELTA is much better globally for employability. The courses are quite different, beyond the number of weeks. Also the Southern Cross CELTA course is quite different from most other CELTA courses, so it's important to do your research, as you obviously have been. All the Southern Cross courses are hosted in an ecoresort on a protected beach in northern Guayas province. We're in the process of completely redoing our website so have a look in a couple of weeks to get more specific and up-to-date information.

For example, be very careful about Mexico! Please feel free to contact me through the email address on the website or just fill out the online application there. Put in a note telling me that you posted here so I'll recognise you.

Good luck!

J�em

[AndrewR]

[Justin Trullinger]

Hi there- with a reputable TESOL cert, finding work without a degree usually isn't a problem. Some particular working situations will be closed to you, but there are still a good number of options. Go ahead and post a little more about your background, and we can tell you more about the options you'd have.

You'd want to do some job hunting and checking out of the situation before you arrive. The kinds of visas described in this thread aren't degree dependent, so no serious worries there.

Salaries have a very wide range here- The $1000 to $2000 jobs that Jaem mentions certainly exist, but often have requirements additional to a TESOL/CELTA certification. More commonly, in Quito, teachers earn $650 to $900, which is still quite liveable. (The Universidad Politecnica Nacional, for example, is the biggest employer of English teacherst that I know of in Ecuador, and pay starts around $650 per month.)


Best,
Justin

[AndrewR]

Well, I was thinking if I'm going to try to work in Ecuador I may as well take the CELTA there and I read on another thread that Southern Cross is the only place in Ecuador that offers it.
Then I went to their website and found this under "Visas for working in Ecuador":

"You need two documents to obtain a work visa : your university degree and certificate showing that you have no criminal record. Both of these documents must be authenticated with an "Apostille" from the Foreign Office or Department of State."

This is so confusing. Who to believe?

[Justin Trullinger]

If CELTA is part of your plan, contact Jaem at SC direct.

CELTA courses are generally done by degree holders, but unless I'm remembering wrong, Cambridge doesn't actually require this. Individual centers may require a degree, though, and I've no idea if Southern Cross does.

I run the SIT TESOL center in Ecuador. We DO have a degree requirement, though there is some flexibility. I've waived the requirement for adults with significant professional education without degrees, and for younger people (still in university) who wanted to do the course during the summer before their graduation year. So even if a degree requirement is listed on the website, it may be worth contacting a center to find out exactly what that means.

For visas, it will depend on a lot of things- contact the consul nearest you as well, as these things are somewhat discretionary, and quickly changing.

I've been in Ecuador for seven years and have never been asked to prove a degree for visa purposes. (I've had to show all sorts of certs for other purposes, but never for visas.)
Best,
Justin

[Atlan Training]

Hi AndrewR

Justin is right that it depends on the consular office. The information that we've given on our website is from the Ecuadorian Consul General site . . .

[AndrewR]

Thanks Jaem.

I looked at the Actos de Comercio 12 IX link you gave. What a nightmare! It would be painful but I can part with the additional $230 if there's no other way to get legal employment status.
But as for the 8 required documents, #7, "Bank letter stating that the person has good economic standing and can support himself" looks impossible.
I don't even have a bank account. I can support myself but I do it with a Visa debit card and cash. And my credit rating is in the toilet largely due to outrageously-high medical bills I couldn't pay. (unlike the civilized world, the USA doesn't have universal healthcare)
Any way around this?

thanks

[Atlan Training]

Hi AndrewR
Visa requirements are generally a nightmare . . . true in the US as well! I think that the best you can do is to make contact with the consulate and just try to get through the process. Otherwise, you can come to Ecuador on a tourist visa and deal with visas through sponsorship once you find an employer. As others here have said, there is a lot of variation in the application of the laws. Send me an email and I can give you the contact for someone who got the visa before the last course we ran.

[ghostdog]

I am trying to sort out a work visa here now on a tourist visa, and all I can say is that in all my years of teaching I have never endured a bigger nightmare. The paperwork here far exceeds anything I've encountered anywhere else, and you must have your work contract approved by the Ministry of Labour before you can even apply for a working visa. They have rejected my contract twice, and this is from a public university. As for the apostilles, they are more likely to satisfy the Ministry of Labour -- who will insist on your proving you have the credentials to teach or whatever -- than Migra, but if you can't get past the Ministry of Labour, you don't get to Migra. The truth is, though, that they would be more impressed with the sort of "proof of employment" letters you collect from Latin American employers than anything else. But I would still consider getting the apostille if it's possible to do so. Your employer might give you a guarantor letter, which needs to be in a specific form known as a carta notarial (and yes, stamped by a notary) if you are skint like me. But be prepared for delay after delay and frustration and frustration. I hate to be down on the process but people should be aware what they are getting into. Also, the laws seem to be in flux so changes -- and more delays and more frustration -- may well be inevitable.

If you are in a position to get a temporary work visa before coming here, I would advise doing so. I don't know if it will simplify the process of getting a longer-term work visa, but it will buy you some time that you will definitely need.

[Atlan Training]

@ghostdog

Ouch! That's really a tough row to hoe you got there. Sorry to hear about what a difficult time you're having. It's incredible isn't it? That a government that has made such profound changes to improve the education system would so hobble qualified teachers coming in. Thanks for the post. It's really useful to know about this. What has been the problem with your contract according to the Ministry of Labor? We've never had this problem at our center, but I think almost everyone has come in with the 12 IX and "converted" to the work visa.

Good luck with it!