Job Discussion Forums

[atoklas]

I'm highly qualified -- experience, references, and numerous other desirable qualities in a prospective employee. I also think I make a pretty decent first impression and do well in interviews. I've been here for weeks, looking for part-time/full-time work making at least 25 Lira/hour. I'm very flexible on WHAT I teach (general English, business English, English for special purposes, TOEFL, English and technology, etc.), WHERE I teach (Asian and European side are both negotiable), and WHEN I teach (nights and weekends are fine). I've been here for six weeks, sent out over 40 CVs to every potential employer I could find, and been on over a half dozen interviews, and so far I've got almost NOTHING. (One chaotic, disorganized language prep school has been giving me a measley 1-2 hours/day, which barely covers my transport to get there. They change the schedule so often I'm not even guaranteed to have the 7 hours by next week...)

Some of the interviews have been hellish... I've started to imagine hell as one eternal job interview in Istanbul. They almost always start at least 30 minutes after the scheduled time, despite the fact that I arrive 10 minutes early, usually after trekking two hours through the maddening traffic. Sometimes the people interviewing me barely speak English themselves. Sometimes they have no idea who I am. (Did they even read my one-page CV? Are they looking for an English teacher, or was I just mistaken?) I've also had several job interviews where they've told me about all the students they're going to be getting in the near future, and they "hire me" and "promise" to call on Monday with my new schedule, only to never call. (Did the millions of prospective students never materialize?)

All this has led me to wonder whether this is because
a) summer and Ramadan are the worst possible times to find a job
b) the economic crisis
c) many Turkish employers shy away from anyone who looks "over-qualified" because they're harder to exploit
d) I'm asking for too much money

Any thoughts from Istanbul veterans?

[billy orr]

a- yes
b- yes
c- no
d- no

Also you need to think about what it means to live in a different culture. The concept of 'face' in the linguistics literature may be a starting point.

You really seem to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. You can probably muddle through for six months or so and then things will get better.

[atoklas]

I have lived more than half my life outside my native country, so I know what means to live in a different culture. However, it is definitely true that I don't understand Turkish culture, particularly Turkish business culture.

Your point is that Turkish employers always want to "save face"? I understand that in the balance between honesty and social harmony, Turks usually prefer social harmony, while Westerners usually prefer honesty. Does this mean that a Turkish employer could tell me anything--
"Yes, you're hired."
"Yes, we'll pay you x Lira/hour."
"Yes, we'll have five new classes for you starting on Monday."
--in the interest of social harmony, and I should believe almost nothing and try to read between the lines? If so, this is undoubtedly a very tiring prospect (as it has already proved to be).

[billy orr]

You seem pretty aware of things, I think you are giving most of the right answers. These are, indeed, the things you will have to put up with, and you should do well, if you choose to stay.

You are right about the social harmony, only I would not characterise western behaviour as 'honest', simply our attempts to deceive people involve different social practices and contexts.

[coffeespoonman]

Actually, I would say that C and D may be "yes" too, depending on where you're applying (and at this time of the year, it's probably not too many quality places - most of those have finished their hiring for the year).

C - I have certainly had experiences where I was not offered a job based on my being overqualified or too professional (thankfully - I found out later). I think it's a matter of the employer looking at you and saying to themselves "well, if we hire this person now, what potential problems is that going to create later when they are unsatisfied with the conditions? Is this person likely to fit in with the other staff? Will this person be liked by the students?" And don't underestimate that last one. Some language schools here wouldn't even hire Jeremy Harmer at 12 TL / hr because they're not interested in good teachers, they're interested in friendly looking foreigners.

This year, for the first time since I've been here, it's not a teacher's market. The economic crisis has created less students and brought more foreigners here looking for work, which they can't find at home. Which means...

D - While teaching salaries are generally on the rise in Istanbul, I don't think (I may be wrong here) that most language schools are going to pay 25 TL a hour. Before I get 100 posts saying "I make that much!", YES, there are certainly jobs that pay 25 TL an hour, oftentimes being either specialty jobs (teaching exam or business English) or involving travel. Especially in this crisis, when schools know that they can pay their hourly employees less, simply because of the demand/supply ratio, I would tend to think that it would be hard to find hourly work for 25 TL / hour - though, again, it certainly does exist.

Good luck to the OP, and I'd suggest that if you really want to make it here in Istanbul, give it another month or two. If you have any specific questions, feel free to send a PM.

[Otterman Ollie]

I would say your biggest obstacle is that you are indeed well ovequalified, the type of places you have applied to ( dershanes perhaps?) are not totally comfortable with your experience/ qualies ratio and may be more concerned with how you may fit in as one poster has already suggested. This will become more apparent as you discover you chose the wrong place to work at.
The other factor is the fact that the fasting month is still with us and even at the best of times a lot of employers are more than a bit slow at getting their act together esp where foreigners are concerned. This is the right time to be looking as primary schools go back today and universities go back after the Bayram, I suggest that you redouble your efforts and spread your net a little wider and chase up interviews of those places you felt were worth working for, don't wait for them to ring you or contact you the onus is on you to hound these slackards!

[eclectic]

I have no exp in Turkey, but it just sounds like the OP is treating the environment there like he's in the UK or US. Perhaps they want a more laid-back kind of candidate.

[coffeespoonman]

Depends on the school. Some schools certainly do not want laid-back teachers. For some interviews, I've had to:

- create power point presentations
- design lesson plans
- teach sample lessons
- create semester-long syllabi

On the other hand, I've also been offered jobs at the pub when I was certainly in no shape to throw around metalanguage (or even complete sentences).

Of course, pay and benefits vary accordingly.