Job Discussion Forums

[Sashadroogie]

A staffroom discussion I can recall, which was quite animated, was centred on the issues of reading aloud and making speeches in the classroom. There were two very sharply divided sides.

The first held that reading aloud was a waste of time, employed only by teachers who didn't know how to teach reading skills and who confused that with pronunciation work. Similarly with getting students to make speeches, it was not a very communicative activity, and did not reflect most everyday speech acts, and was only done by teachers who didn't know how else to get students to talk.

The other side held that speech-making gave students equal speaking time, forced them to have to speak by providing real motivation and goal-achievement, and tied in quite nicely with business skills, such as power-point presentations, which also involved reading aloud.

Where do other posters stand on this great issue of our time?

[nickpellatt]

I've only really worked in two environments; small classes of intermediate German students, and large classes of lower level Chinese ones.

With the Germans, I have rarely employed 'speeches' as an activity. I have tasked them to prepare a presentation for the class ... but actually delivering the presentation really represents about 10% of the class time. The real work in that lesson is done in the preparation in truth.

It was different in China though. The large classes were one real factor in that, and in all honesty, with some of my lower level classes, I often struggled with lessons. With up to 50 kids in those classes I found pair work hard to monitor effectively, and group work was also a nightmare with moving desks etc.

Because of that, I often used texts that I would read and the students would follow. Probably not the best activity ... but it did tend to involve most of the class, and it gave them a chance to speak English in relative safety, in a controlled manner.

Another plus point, was it meant I was often 'teaching' in a way that was familiar to them, as their Chinese teachers did the same. Im not suggesting it is the most effective way of engaging the class .. but it did condition them a little towards approaching my lessons in a way similar to the way they approached lessons with their local teachers.

I think when I first worked in China, my students thought I was there to play music and entertain them. By doing this type of activity, they soon learnt my lessons would be more like those of a local teacher, rather than the guitar playing FT in the next classroom!

My China experience was prior to my Trinity course, and was 18 months ago now ... Im not sure I would use the same activity so much in the future as I dont really see it offering a lot to the student. But horses for courses, I think with large classes in China, it is probably a better activity than 'free talk', 'debates' and other tasks that are at worst, ignored by everyone, or at best, taken over by just a handful of students from a class of 50.

I cant offer fancy linguistic explanations Im afraid .. but for low level students I think speech making and reading aloud does have it uses. My own experience of learning languages (I play at learning Chinese) does involve listening to, and repeating MP3 lessons. True it doesnt increase communication skills, but it is a confidence builder. I feel that in some classrooms, and some cultures, building a students confidence is quite important, and allowing students to make speeches that are prepared and rehearsed, and reading aloud does increase confidence and take away some of the fear of using language.

In fact, I am just editing this to add another thought!

Speech making couold be a useful activity for intermediate and above students, depending upon how it is used IMO. Perhaps listening to and analysing a native speaker speech, highlight perhaps the use of personal pronouns, modals etc could illustrate how lexical items are used by native speakers to influence and persuade, and students could then use the same tools in their own speeches?

Just a thought ... I guess my summary is that any activity can have some use, provided it is used for the right reasons, with the right explanations and target language etc.

[spiral78]

The other side held that speech-making gave students equal speaking time, forced them to have to speak by providing real motivation and goal-achievement, and tied in quite nicely with business skills, such as power-point presentations, which also involved reading aloud.

I teach presentation skills all the way from first year uni to Phd and for professionals. And I think they are a SUPER way to work with all kinds of groups, so long as you involve all the students - which can be pretty easy.

Nick's made a very valid point: the preparation for a presentation is probably the most valuable part of the exercise. However, here are a few other very useful points IMO:)

First, it's not related to reading aloud. A power point presentation (for most professions - mathmatics based stuff, for example, is a bit different) should back the speaker up with graphics, data, and bullet-point-style text.
The slides are meant to support the speaker, not to guide him/her through the presentation.

Second, our students are not allowed to read their presentations. They are allowed some notecards (usually ONE for a 10-minute presentation).

Third, the basic skills courses we teach on the subject highlight the whole range of skills needed: preparation (practice is the only way to be sure you will be in a time limit - and the time limits are VERY important in many academic and professional contexts). Students should be sure that they can pronounce all key terms correctly. They need to consider all aspects of delivery, from volume and speed to body language and dress.

Fourth, the audience should be given specific reasons to listen. It's obviously way too easy for students to zone out!
One way to do this is to break them into small teams or pairs and give each a different task: give feedback to the speaker on delivery, or body language, or visuals, or content (what were his/her main ideas? do you agree with them?). They can even be given discrete grammar or vocabulary tasks: write the thesis and the first sentence of the conclusion exactly as the speaker says them: write every number used in the presentation: write every time expression: write every term related to whatever subject.....there are a million possibilities, and can cover a range from content, to opinion, to knowledge, to grammar, to vocab, and obviously to presentation skills themselves.

This even works in very large classes such a Nick describes. Give them a team presentation. Give other teams specific 'reasons for listening' tasks. It can actually engage quite a bit group at one time.


Yeah, ok, I obviously think that giving 'speeches' can be really useful:)

My latest product was a student planning his dissertation presentation on the criminal penalties for cybercrimes in the EU. Very Tom Cruise.

[denise]

Most of my teaching experience has been with university students. Given that in their credit courses they will likely have to make speeches/give presentations, it only makes sense to give them some practice. No, they're not very communicative activities, and yes, the students can merely memorize, rather than speaking with fluency, but if the goals and objectives of the course include giving them presentation skills (using powerpoint or not... one of the levels in my university actually bans powerpoint because it takes too much time to train the students to use it well, and more often than not they put more effort into powerpoint than into what they're saying), then I see it as a necessary component. And many chatty Arab students really enjoy it!

As far as reading aloud... I can't remember the last time I had my students read a text out loud. I will ask them to do dictation work in pairs or groups, with one student reading aloud and another/others listening and writing, but my focus is more on pronunciation and listening than writing.

And, surprisingly, some students actually enjoy reading aloud, despite its questionable benefits. I used a few graded readers in class this past term, and many of the students would sit with their friends and read the stories out loud to each other. The whole point was to encourage free reading/instill in them an appreciation for reading (yada, yada, yada), so I wasn't about to stop them.

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[Mr. Kalgukshi]

Some of you are posting off-topic nonsense and other members are responding with more off-topic nonsense. IF this continues, you will not.

Keep the bar banter for the bar. Postings containing same have now been deleted.

This warning is directed only at those members who are going off-topic and posting unprofessional comments that may fly on other boards but not on this one.

[Englishish]

As Spiral said, making speeches and reading aloud are not the same thing (although there are always a few students who try!) I've had various clases where making a presentation (rather than a speech) was part of the assessment (both in general and conversation classes) so I used to spend a class helping them with general preparation and tips rather than leaving them to their own devices.

Presentations are a useful skill for some students as it might be necessary in their working lives but others feel it's a complete waste of time as it is something that they will never need to use. For my part, it can be quite exhausting trying to listen in to students in a conversation class to get a clear idea of each of their strengths and weaknesses as there is always the usual problem of the dominant ones being dominant and the quiet ones being quiet. There have been times when I've been pleasantly surprised to discover that a student is stronger than I'd previously thought when 'forced' to speak (even though their conversation skills might be weak).

Reading aloud for a presentation is definitely NOT allowed but I like to teach them how to take and use notes effectively and other students have to give feedback (on sheets) re various presentation skills such as clarity,volume, body language, etc so that they have better awareness of what is needed to give a good presentation (which is more than having good English!) They have one practice lesson where they have to choose a topic from a list and give a mini presention, concentrating on use of notes, layout and presentation skills. They have to prepare their 'real' presentation at home.

Re speeches, one student was desperate to show the rest of the class the speech by Steve Jobs which she'd found inspirational (unrelated to her presentation) and though a speech and a presentation aren't exactly the same thing there were many features they can have in common. e.g. introducing the speech, making it clear to the audience where the speech would go and which stage they were at, use of humour, varying the tone by changing the tone from light to heavy and back, using twists to surprise the audience repetition of words for effect etc.

Although the speech was specific to Steve Jobs, there were still aspects of it that could be applied to making a work presentation. e.g. asking a question and then answering it yourself. (This helps the audience to be aware of what they are listening to or to wake up if they were falling asleep! It helps avoids the problem of the audience listening to a presentation and still wondering half-way through what exactly it was about and then tuning out by providing 're-entry' points for the audience to re-engage with the presentation. Useful stuff!) All the students enjoyed it and several of them were so inspired that they went home to show their family members!

As for reading aloud in class, it is not something that I often ask students to do although there are times when I think it can be useful. For my part, I find that if I have to read something in a foreign language then I can't concentrate on the meaning but only on saying the words but that probably says more about my (lack of) ability with languages more than anything else! If students are having problems understanding a written text, I will sometimes get students to take it in turns to read each part out loud and go through the comprehension questions together as a class.
At the end of the article I will write all of the words (from all of the students) that have been mispronounced on the board and elicit the correct pronunciation from the students. Students in general seem to want more correction so they are usually quite pleased to have direct but non-confrontation feedback in this way.

By the way, if anyone is interested in the Steve Jobs speech, you can see it here:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-204609026222503944#

or read it here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1422863/posts

It's worth a watch. Talking of which I think I'll go and watch it now!