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7168Riyadh
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 149
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 Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:17 pm Post subject: Bell/Obeikan at KSU--latest crap |
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| For those of you coming out to KSU�watch out. On a previous thread on this forum��KSU revisited��I vaguely recommended working on the King Saud University (male campus) PYP programme on the grounds that the salary was just about okay, and the terms and conditions of employment tolerable. I�m afraid the �bullshit� I alluded to in earlier posts has become rather trying. Teachers are now expected to work office hours. Therefore, if your shift starts at 1.00PM, you should sign in at 9.15AM and hang about until class starts. Morning shift teachers, who are obliged to sign in at 7.30AM, are required to remain at the school until 3.15PM. The teachers raised a petition to protest these onerous working hours, but so far nothing has changed. I�m afraid the university managers are total morons. Ditto Obeikan, Bell�s local partner,�once more slow to get anything done; post facto withholding five days salary from the beginning of September, just so they have [another] lever over teachers. Teachers have been made to work one long day regularly to cover for teacher shortfall. And on this fiasco goes. I don�t want to scare anyone, but I just want to say that this job is no longer worth it and I�m only hanging on because I�m invested for. My advice is to avoid getting involved with Bell/Obeikan�totally dysfunctional/unethical employers who don�t give a damn about the teacher's rights and operate along mindless corporate lines. Contrary to management opinion, everything has gotten worse. |
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Pikgitina
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 420
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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I hear ya 7168Riyadh! There is definitely a point one reaches where the $$$ just doesn't seem as good any longer...
Also, while I don't want to rain on your parade  , being required to work office hourse can hardly be regarded as onerous. While a pain in the arse (I'm in the same boat), it definitely gives you the chance to do ALL your prep, marking, copying, etc at work. However, I realise that the shorter hours probably made the otherwise intolerable goings-on tolerable.
Good luck to you!  |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I have friends who work at Bell/KSU (both male and female sections).
When I chatted to them last academic year, they would tell me that, yeah, KSU gets a bad press and there are some lousy things about working there, but overall it's really not such a bad deal and you get to go home early!
This year, however, the same people have been telling me that there is now little to recommend KSU and they don't intend to sign on with them again. The only positive thing I've heard mentioned is that there's ample opportunity to do overtime and hence save more money. But that's about it. |
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saharastars
Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 107
Location: Wonderland
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the update. Its a sad thing to know that the KSA is NOT good option for work, its such a pity. I hope that the powers that be will read thease posts and attempt to sort things out. If these places really want quality staff, they have to develop a good reputation for taking care to treat them with dignity and respect.
People who are attracted to teaching are without doubt highly intelligent and patient (ie salary), it doesnt make sense to antagonise your staff in this way, all that will happen is people will leave, continuity and standards WILL FALL, and recruitment costs will go through the roof! |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| If these places really want quality staff |
And what if they do not (want quality staff, that is)?
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People who are attracted to teaching are without doubt highly intelligent and patient (ie salary) |
I'm sayin' nuttin...
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| people will leave, continuity and standards WILL FALL, and recruitment costs will go through the roof! |
Not neccessarily, because there will always be people desperate enough to take what we might consider very lousy jobs. They may not be native speakers, they may not have MAs, they may not have much experience... but hey, they'll take what they're given and be glad of it.
Sad to say, but that is all that a lot of employers really care about. |
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Kalima Shahada
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 198
Location: I live in a house, but my home is in the stable.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
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| people will leave, continuity and standards WILL FALL, and recruitment costs will go through the roof |
Not neccessarily, because there will always be people desperate enough to take what we might consider very lousy jobs. They may not be native speakers, they may not have MAs, they may not have much experience... but hey, they'll take what they're given and be glad of it.
Sad to say, but that is all that a lot of employers really care about. |
Okay, that could very well be the case, but we (as in everyone) can possibly see a future full of angry students who find that other universities have native English speaking teachers who are happy and better than their teachers at KSU. There is competition! And so when these students have had enough with complaining (to the KSU admin.) and they drop out in droves, it is the agencies and recruiters who will be the ones to shoulder all of the responsibility. KSU will not accept the blame. IOW, I expect to see such bulls as Bell and Obeikan (along with their �'bullshit'�) to be sacked by KSU and apologies sent out to all of the students in an effort to bring them back. But it will take many years to build back up a reputation that has been broken. Make no mistake about it, students will complain when their good teachers leave and they are replaced with bad ones, especially the inexperienced non-native speakers. Saudi students will not put up with that for long! |
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oops
Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Bell/Obeikan at KSU--latest crap |
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| The teachers raised a petition to protest these onerous working hours, but so far nothing has changed |
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-nor is it likely to. If, and only if, the students start to question the service they get, will things begin to change. Unlikely perhaps, but if this happened, being asked to be on-site and available for a full working day might seem like a minor issue in comparison. |
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Mia Xanthi
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| they have to develop a good reputation for taking care to treat them with dignity and respect. |
Fat chance in KSA. My experience was that they will treat you like dirt as long as they can, and then ditch you for someone less competent. The students have grown up in KSA, and they are used to this cr@p. They'll keep coming until the place runs out of money and falls apart...and then move on. Common sense, like teaching teachers with respect, will never prevail. Sorry to sound so bitter, but that's the way I see it.
(Again, to Cleo and others, this is based only on my personal experience at one notorious institution in the Eastern Province ) |
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Citizenkane
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Xanadu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| There is competition! |
Actually, there isn't.
KSU is a state-run university and there's great competition among Saudis to get in. They are not likely to drop out just because the English teachers aren't up to scratch! You also have to know that SAudi students dont' exactly ahve high expectations when it comes to teachers or education. What seems intolerable to you might be just fine for them.
BTW contrary to what Mia says, there are decent employers in KSA. You just have to ask around before deciding. It also helps to be qualified and experienced. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| I think this depends very much on the employer. Some employers do treat teachers very badly. I am fortunate in that my current employers (and SOME I have had in the past) have treated me fairly. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| Citizenkane wrote: |
| BTW contrary to what Mia says, there are decent employers in KSA. You just have to ask around before deciding. It also helps to be qualified and experienced. |
Not to disagree completely, but even the highly qualified and experienced like Mia can get drawn into an institution with a short track record, but seemingly moving in the right direction. But... "new universityitis" can set in quickly and qualified management can get suddenly axed or give up and leave because of the roadblocks of the system. Things can go downhill very quickly.
The truth is that there are not many good employers for women in Saudi. Can you name some for us?
VS |
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Citizenkane
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Xanadu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Not to disagree completely, but even the highly qualified and experienced like Mia can get drawn into an institution with a short track record, but seemingly moving in the right direction |
As Mia says, her experience is based on one university alone. Like scot, I've had a number of different employers - some have been good and some have been awful. Mia had one very bad experience, as do lots of people. Why is it of so much more importance than other people's experiences, bad AND good?
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| The truth is that there are not many good employers for women in Saudi. Can you name some for us? |
You'd be better off asking women about this, as my knowledge here is at best second hand. I know a few women who say PSU in Riyadh is quite good, certainly way better than it was a few years ago. DAU is a newly opened uni in riyadh which pays very well and has a reasonable reputation - though it's new and of course that could change. There are also a few private colleges in Jeddah that employ women, but Idon't know much about them.
And yes... for every good employer there are probably several bad ones. But to say that there are no good places to work in KSA is just false. |
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EFLUndercover
Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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KSU did itself a big injustice by aligning itself with a book publisher (AlObeikan) that had no prior experience in the education field. They just want to sell their books for which they get millions of riyals from the university.
They aren't really interested in the actual education aspect of the contract. This is why they treat their employees like crap. They figure if you don't like it, we will just get someone else to replace you and so on and so on.
Who suffers, the teachers, the students and KSU. |
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Kalima Shahada
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 198
Location: I live in a house, but my home is in the stable.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Citizenkane wrote: |
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| There is competition! |
Actually, there isn't. |
I beg to differ. You already mentioned two competitive universities (PSU and DAU) and now there is PNU too. There are a few other specialized colleges and universities in Riyadh as well. And for serious students, they may certainly think about universities in Jeddah or Dammam as well as others outside of the KSA.
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| KSU is a state-run university and there's great competition among Saudis to get in. |
That's true, but if they can't get their scores up to passing standards (incuding their English exams), they can't get matriculated into the university in order to study for a degree. These ESL courses that we (as in most ESL teachers) teach are pre-entry only, so the courses do not count towards the students' university credits.
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| They are not likely to drop out just because the English teachers aren't up to scratch! |
After reading all the threads on here about KSU (as well as speaking with a few teachers there), I learned that a lot of students were so fed up with their classes that they flat out refused to even come to class. Teachers were teaching to empty classrooms or to one or two students who managed to show up out of about 25 students enrolled! So it sure doesn't sound like they were putting up with their teachers very well.
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| You also have to know that SAudi students dont' exactly ahve high expectations when it comes to teachers or education. |
I couldn't disagree with you more! They have been some of the most demanding students I have ever had to teach! Here's one example:
On the first day of class (right after I took attendence), one student demanded that she get a native English speaking teacher from the UK and no other country would suit her fancy. I asked her why and she said she liked 'their accent.' I told her that I had no control over what students are in my class as that is an administrative duty, but she is welcome to ask for a class change. I also told her that she may not be guaranteed a native English speaking teacher at all. This princess was in shock and visably angry because she was under the impression that all of the teachers came from the UK. |
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Citizenkane
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Xanadu
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I beg to differ. You already mentioned two competitive universities (PSU and DAU) and now there is PNU too. |
Since these are private universities, they can't be said to be in competition with KSU, which is state run.
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| There are a few other specialized colleges and universities in Riyadh as well |
There are, but they are nowhere near as big as big as KSU. As I'm sure you know, competition to get into state-run unis is quite fierce, which sadly allows unis to be indifferent as to standards there.
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| And for serious students, they may certainly think about universities in Jeddah or Dammam as well as others outside of the KSA. |
Again, this cannot be considered direct competition for KSU, and the same rules about competition for places apply.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:38 am Post subject:
Citizenkane wrote:
Quote:
There is competition!
Actually, there isn't.
I beg to differ. You already mentioned two competitive universities (PSU and DAU) and now there is PNU too. There are a few other specialized colleges and universities in Riyadh as well. And for serious students, they may certainly think about universities in Jeddah or Dammam as well as others outside of the KSA.
Quote:
KSU is a state-run university and there's great competition among Saudis to get in.
That's true, but if they can't get their scores up to passing standards (incuding their English exams), they can't get matriculated into the university in order to study for a degree. These ESL courses that we (as in most ESL teachers) teach are pre-entry only, so the courses do not count towards the students' university credits.
Quote:
After reading all the threads on here about KSU (as well as speaking with a few teachers there), I learned that a lot of students were so fed up with their classes that they flat out refused to even come to class. |
OK, but that's not at all the same as saying that they dropped out of uni becasue of bad English teaching!
As for your anecdote about your demanding student, fine, but I could match it with twenty others drawing the opposite conclusion. I worked in one of the most expensive private unis in KSA, and was shocked at how students - often from very wealthy and influential families - would put up with levels of disorganization and teaching incompetence which would never for a second be accepted in even a humble polytechnic back home. I could only draw the conclusion that their expectations were so low that they really didn't think it so bad. |
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