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[midlife 2.5]

Warning! Newbie question to follow>

I've been lurking around the community for a while and only just came to notice that there are very few US english language emersion experiences which don't have an affiliation with an institution of higher ed. I did my french emersion a L'auberge du Lac Lucern en Quebec. Class in the morning, slopes in the afternoon. I'm not sure if I still ski like an Canadien but 20+ years later it turns out I still speak french like one. My spanish experience was in Cuernavaca MX. Both emersions were for personal edification and university credit was not of primary importance.

Are there so few esl students of means that the emersion / cultural / recreation experience of a center in a recreation rich environment can not succeed? Think spa with english classes here. There would appear to be sufficient talent and domestic demand in the esl teaching community to be able to staff such a facility.

I can see how a university setting could be offputting to a portion of the esl learner. I can equally see how a more amenity rich experience might have a certain market. I'm quite sure I'm missing something here. Does anybody have any insight for me?

[sarahg]

There are a couple in San Diego and probably most other big cities on the West Coast, maybe the East. I guess the fairly low number is because most people who are learning English in the US tend to be students, who already have a good grasp of English to come here so they can learn in a university, or immigrants who need it for work and cannot afford a private immersion program so they take classes from community organizations or community colleges.

[spiral78]

If you google it as 'immersion,' you'll likely find more providers...

[midlife 2.5]

Ahhh too funny I noticed that (and regoogled) but decided to leave my warts on display. It's good to be able to laugh at oneself. I still did not come up with much mind you, even with the correct spelling.

[jg]

Yes, given the number of immigrants here in the U.S., the lack of schools is amazing. Even in Chicago, the nation's third largest city and with a HUGE immigrant population, there are less than 1/2 dozen options, most of them not worth mentioning. In L.A., though there are lots and lots of wealthy and ambitious immigrants who want to learn English, most of the schools are fly-by-night operations that hire anyone who is a native speaker.

Part of the problem is that there are few, if any, state standards for the various language mills that pop up, so you get lots of shady and/or cheap owners and opportunists, and the industry hasn't taken off; there are no good models for anyone to copy/build on. Plus community colleges and universities have organized programs that often take care of housing and visas, so perhaps this deters others from getting into the market? Every single private school ESL student I've spoken too here found out about the school by word of mouth, Google, or an ad in a Russian/Spanish/Polish language newspaper in the local immigrant community. There is very little professional and polished outreach to students.

That's my 2 cents about the "why". Here is what I think is a somewhat typical real-life example:

Here in Florida, I spent last summer and fall working for a brand new private school. The woman who opened the school was fresh off the boat from Kazakhstan. We had to wait one year from our day of opening to offer I-9 visas, so we had no way to attract students from overseas. She hired me without asking for a demo lesson, and she paid $15 an hour, which is a joke. The INS required that new schools have an onsite library/study area for students in order to eventually give I-9 visas; we had 4 or 5 books and two computers with net access that worked about 1/2 the time. There was no room set aside as a library; apart from my class there were just 3 big, empty classrooms, gathering dust. When I quit we still hadn't been inspected by the INS, but when they came around and saw such a shoestring operation, what might they say?

The owner (somewhat) did the best she could, but she saw it only as a money making enterprise, not an educational one, so she cut corners where she shouldn't have. We did offer 3 hour "immersion" classes ever morning and evening. Like many private schools, we couldn't afford to have different teachers for what should have been from 4 - 7 different levels, so new students were all thrown in with me, the sole teacher at the school. I had students who were ready for the TOEFL in with students who needed help with basic prepositions and the continuous verb forms. I doubt any of them didn't notice this "one size fits all" approach. I taught morning and evening, but for a few months we didn't have any students for the night class so it was cancelled. The most students we ever had in total was 6. She was the school director, but she spoke so-so English and had to defer to me or the receptionist to understand basic things like a city business license. In addition to the school, she owned a car export business and a real estate school (all run out of the same office) so her attention span was deeply compromised, to say the least.

Etc, etc. Years ago, I had hopes of opening my own school, but when thinking about the difficulty in attracting students and serious, qualified teachers, I had to pause. Add to that the overhead costs from classroom space and equipment, and I think the private ESL market in the U.S. will continue to be pretty lame. This is sad. It means that good teachers who want to be compensated fairly, and to work with students who are dedicated and not just here to party/work on an I-9 visa, need to look abroad or compete for one of the dwindling jr. college jobs.

[Chancellor]

Here in Buffalo, other than some of the universities and Catholic Charities, there aren't many ESL programs. Here's one that an organization doing a lot of work with immigrants runs: http://www.iibuff.org/index.php?src=gendocs&ref=English%20as%20a%20Second%20Language&category=Language_Classes. It's a cooperative effort with Buffalo Public Schools. Among other qualifications, they generally want their instructors to have at least a graduate certificate in adult education.

[jillford64]

Also, it is hard for schools to compete with Adult Ed programs, which are free for students.