| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
EnglishDoYouSpeakIt
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 151
Location: Saudi Arabia
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: Unhappy with your 'contract?' Maybe you're doing it wrong. |
 |
|
xxx
Last edited by EnglishDoYouSpeakIt on Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
They weren't told they were coming for an adventure when they were hired. They were told they were coming for a job with a specific salary to work under specific conditions. If they've been deliberately misled they've a right to complain. Unless they were specifically told they were coming under single status and their spouse would be their responsibility, they are quite right to expect the employer to facilitate the paperwork for their spuse to come, and to expect at the very least a one-bedroom flat if they are a childless couple.
| Quote: |
This is Saudi Arabia. Contracts are just paper. |
Same in the US or UK. It's about as difficult for a newly-arrived foreigner to get a contract enforced in the US or UK as it is for the same in Saudi Arabia. In fact as far as reneging on contract terms in EFL most of the world is as bad or worse than Saudi. The difference is that in other countries you can change job much more easily |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EnglishDoYouSpeakIt
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 151
Location: Saudi Arabia
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Stephen,
It's been a month or more for many of these people. If I wasn't content instead of staying and complain I'd be gone.
If I go to Herfy and order meat and they give me chicken, I don't take bites of the sandwich while I complain to the manager.
You seem to agree with me regarding contracts. I wouldn't bring a family here when guarantees aren't available. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| It's been a month or more for many of these people. If I wasn't content instead of staying and complain I'd be gone. |
These people have given up their jobs in their home countries, travelled thousands of miles, and from what we were hearing earlier in these forums often been weeks without an income whilst waiting for a visa. Yet you are saying they should just ignore the fact they have been grossly misled, as they claim, and pack up and go, 'because Saudi Arabia isn't like the rest of the world'.
You are also presuming that the employer would live up to his word to pay for them to go, when it means he will lose thousands of dollars in commission, and has not, apparently, been famed for sticking to his word in the past. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Der EnglishDoYouSpeakIt,
This puzzles me:
"People here are complaining that they can't bring their wives or that their shame marriage 'wives' aren't receiving proper facilities."
Did you mean "sham?" And, if so, how would you know that these marriages are "sham marriages?"
Regards,
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Like johnslat, I was a bit puzzled about "shame marriages" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cuffs
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 77
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Shome mishtake shurely? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EnglishDoYouSpeakIt
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 151
Location: Saudi Arabia
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
You are also presuming that the employer would live up to his word to pay for them to go, when it means he will lose thousands of dollars in commission, and has not, apparently, been famed for sticking to his word in the past. |
People in our group have wanted to leave and have been given flights home at no cost to them. So it isn't a presumption.
And the other point:
A forum full of English teachers, indeed. I too have corrected a mistake here and there. And indeed, I meant sham. From the horses mouth, I've had teachers in this lot tell me that they've come with their girlfriends equipped with marriage certificates less than genuine in order to share accommodation. This wasn't the point I hoped would be discussed and probably should have left it out entirely. But it does hold merit in the sense that they are being just as deceptive as their handlers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Serious allegations ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The question is: Were these people told they would receive a villa or compound accomodation? If they were promised this, and haven't got it, then their complaints are justified. Ditto if the salary they are receiving is less that that which they were promised.
| Quote: |
This is Saudi Arabia. Contracts are just paper. |
Actually, at least until the advent of these awful 'recruiter' operations, blatant breach of contract has been pretty rare, certainly at such an early stage of someone's employment. Of course if it does happen, there's very little you can do about it, but it's not correct to say such behaviour is the norm.
| Quote: |
| It's been a month or more for many of these people. If I wasn't content instead of staying and complain I'd be gone. |
Again, what exactly is the situation? Were people promised, say, 12000SR a month and now been definitively told they will only get 9000SR? Were they told they could bring their spouses and now been told they cannot? If the situation is as clear-cut as that, then it might be an idea for them to cut their losses and go - at least if they have a job to go to. Many of them probably don't, and at this stage in the year are unlikely to find one. In which case they'll have little choice but to start applying for other jobs and try to stick it out with this employer in the meantime. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wait... so those legally married are complaining because they are unable to bring their wives? But those with supposedly fake marriage certificates have been able to bring theirs... but are now complaining about the married housing?
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dear EnglishDoYouSpeakIt,
Faking a marriage with documents good enough to fool the authorities would take some very heavy-duty forgery. And your use of the plural suggest that not just one "couple" has done this.
If by "sham" you mean the couples aren't really married, I'm afraid I'd have to over-stretch my normal boundaries of credulity too far to credit that.
Regards,
John
Last edited by johnslat on Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EnglishDoYouSpeakIt
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 151
Location: Saudi Arabia
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
Wait... so those legally married are complaining because they are unable to bring their wives? But those with supposedly fake marriage certificates have been able to bring theirs... but are now complaining about the married housing?
VS |
'married' teachers, both with the same company. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EnglishDoYouSpeakIt
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 151
Location: Saudi Arabia
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cleopatra wrote: |
The question is: Were these people told they would receive a villa or compound accomodation? If they were promised this, and haven't got it, then their complaints are justified. Ditto if the salary they are receiving is less that that which they were promised.
|
| Cleopatra wrote: |
Actually, at least until the advent of these awful 'recruiter' operations, blatant breach of contract has been pretty rare, certainly at such an early stage of someone's employment. Of course if it does happen, there's very little you can do about it, but it's not correct to say such behaviour is the norm.
|
If its rampant now, wouldn't that make it par for this course?
| Cleopatra wrote: |
Again, what exactly is the situation? Were people promised, say, 12000SR a month and now been definitively told they will only get 9000SR? Were they told they could bring their spouses and now been told they cannot? If the situation is as clear-cut as that, then it might be an idea for them to cut their losses and go - at least if they have a job to go to. Many of them probably don't, and at this stage in the year are unlikely to find one. In which case they'll have little choice but to start applying for other jobs and try to stick it out with this employer in the meantime.
|
Right. I'm not an authority. I don't have thousands of posts on this forum. But I managed to understand what I was getting into before I came over here. I'm simply saying that others should have as well.
Teaching abroad is often like the lottery, and to have your well being be determined by a dice roll isn't the smartest thing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tacomaboywa
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 194
Location: The Magic Kingdom
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| EnglishDoYouSpeakIt wrote: |
| Cleopatra wrote: |
The question is: Were these people told they would receive a villa or compound accommodation?
|
| Cleopatra wrote: |
Again, what exactly is the situation?
|
Right. I'm not an authority. I don't have thousands of posts on this forum. But I managed to understand what I was getting into before I came over here. I'm simply saying that others should have as well.
Teaching abroad is often like the lottery, and to have your well being be determined by a dice roll isn't the smartest thing. |
Could you answer some of the questions posted? This would be helpful for those who have not come over yet and are researching the situation. What sort of employer is it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
