Job Discussion Forums

[chickyabroad]

Hello, I'm a fairly new ESL teacher and so far I've mostly taught kids, but I'd like to move to a university position. I'm trying to make this a career and I think in the long term university jobs seem to be the better ones for someone without a k-12 teaching license.

So my question is where is the best place to look for a university job for someone without a ton of experience or an MA? I have taught in Korea for 2 years, one at a language school and one at a public middle school, did the CELTA after the first year in Korea and am now teaching adults in a language school in Istanbul. Plus I did a few months volunteer work back in the States tutoring adult immigrants.

So all together, I have about 2.5 years experience but only about 1 year 1 month post-CELTA experience. And I am currently in the process of applying for MA programs, if that makes any difference.

Thanks!

[naturegirl321]

It-s pretty easy to get a job in China without an MA, but pay isn-t that good.

[Chris_Crossley]

[chickyabroad]

[Chris_Crossley]

[anyway]

Actually, I think Korea would be one of the best places because it all depends on who you know in that country. I once knew a guy who got one of the top shelf uni jobs with only six months experience....and a law degree...over 60-70 other interviewees (and applicants in the hundreds).

I would suggest you try the state of Oaxaca's uni system. I believe they're still expanding and there are regular ads every few months on the major boards. Can't remember the exact quals, but I think an MA is still only 'preferred' and not required. Although I think their package is quite decent, some of their rural locations are not going to attract a lot of interest. So if you're willing to live in the sticks, buenos suerte!

[Chris_Crossley]

[jpvanderwerf2001]

Russia. I know at least two people here in Vladivostok who have taught in Unis without even possessing a degree. I think, here, a person just has to get on the ground and sniff around, as there aren't many native speakers (esp. outside of Moscow-St. Pete).
I'm pretty sure they made enough money to live all right, and both lived in teacher housing.

[chickyabroad]

So from the sound of it I should concentrate on China, but still explore other options.

Though the info about the uni in Mexico is really interesting too. Anyway, do you know if they hire from abroad or would I be better off showing up in person? When do they usually hire? And do you know about how many hours a week is normal for a uni down there?

I think the problem with Korea and Russia is that I would have a better chance if I could apply in person and I just can't afford that. I've applied to a few unis in Korea, but I know a lot of them like to do in person interviews. Jpvanderwer, do you know if any unis in Russia hire from abroad?

Thanks!

[jpvanderwerf2001]

I highly doubt that Russian Unis would hire from overseas. On the ground is the name of the game here.

[anyway]

The state of Oaxaca is very large and the universities are spread out all over the place which makes visiting difficult. I wish I had a link handy, but you can find the state system website and a map of campuses fairly easily. The recent ads were from campuses in Papaloapan, Tuxtepec, etc. Can't remember the details of the positions, but I think they do require 40 hours on campus, something like 16 contact, and there is a break/siesta in the middle of the day which means split shift. Not everyone's cup of tea.

They do hire from abroad, not sure of their semester schedule, but they seem to be organized and start well in advance. This might be due to low interest/hard to fill locations but also the apostille of diploma problem, which takes time to accomplish. So showing up probably won't work well unless you have all the right docs and stamps on entry to the country and perfect timing.

Of course, it is always better to apply in person, especially to scope out the environment since some of the locations might turn out to be too isolated for some folks to handle. I think self-sufficiency is key and some Spanish (or desire to learn) should go without saying. It's got to be an awesome 'authentic' experience and great for nature lovers. Been on my list for a several years now...

EDIT: There is an ad on tesall dot com right now for one of the Oaxacan unis...

[chickyabroad]

First, thanks for all the suggestions. Anyway, the Oaxaca university system looks like a great job, I'm definitely looking into them.

Next a warning - this will be a VERY long post. So thanks in advance to any who read it all and give advice!

As I said in the initial post, I am looking for a university position because I'm planning to make TEFL a career and I think that's the next best step for me. My only problem is figuring out where to go and when. I am looking into doing a postgrad certificate in teaching English for Academic Purposes, which has a two week residency requirement in the UK mid-July. So all the options I'm considering have to take into account that I need the two middle weeks of July free.

I've come up with 5 different options and have been doing as much research as I can but as you'll see below, I still have more to do. I'm putting up this (rather long) pros & cons list in the hope that some of you who have more experience in TEFL in general and/or experience in these particular jobs and areas will give me some insight.

Option #1 University job in China
Pros:
Time off to do EAP program in summer
Freedom to design curriculum (?)
Time to study online & have private students for extra money
Learning Mandarin would be useful for future plans

Cons:
Low pay
Seems a choice of living in very polluted city or rural area with no amenities

Option #2 Oaxaca University job
Pros:
Good experience with motivated (?) university students
Possibility to relearn Spanish
Time to study online

Cons:
Very low pay (would probably end up in debt after paying for grad. program)
No time for private students to supplement income
Mostly very rural and hot locations
Possibly a conflict with EAP summer program in UK (not sure of school vacation dates)

Option #3 University job in Korea
Pros:
Good pay, able to save quite a bit
Solid university teaching experience (? as long as it's not a unigwon)
Good networking opportunities - generally decent TEFL conferences in Korea
Familiar culture & language for me
Time to study online

Cons:
Might not be able to get position from overseas, without contacts at universities
Possible conflict with summer EAP program in UK (not sure of typical summer vacation dates at Korean unis)
Possibility of ending up at a unigwon teaching kids

Option #4 Staying in Istanbul, and applying for university jobs for next September
Pros:
Could possibly look better on resume, instead of leaving after 1-2 months
Have some familiarity with schools/city now, easier than moving to a completely new place
Time to travel around Turkey and possibly Europe
Mostly great & enthusiastic students

Cons:
No opportunity to learn a useful language (such as Spanish or Mandarin)
Expensive to live, will have to live like a monk or not really save anything
Always stressed about lack of visa & associated visa run costs
Generally working 6 days a week
To make a decent living, would have to give up my best classes due to schedule conflicts

Option #5 Westgate University position, Japan
Pros:
Short term contract
Decent money (? there are conflicting reports about this)
At least some university experience
Possibly an easy, stress free job

Cons:
Possibility of a very long commute, horrible manager, bad apartment, etc. A bit of a crap shoot.
Strict hiring process and rules once hired
Not sure if contract would be finished in time for summer EAP program in UK

Again, I really really appreciate anyone who takes the time to read this and give me advice! If I end up in your country, I owe you a beer.

[Glenski]

Westgate's job is not a university position. They are a dispatch company who put teachers into the university to teach conversation classes. The uni has no control over the teachers. You are a Westgate company employee. It is only a short-term job, although they sponsor a full year-long visa, so after you finish with them, you will have to move out of your place, find another, and have another job. NOT easy in Japan's economic climate, especially if you want to continue in university.

Easy, stressfree job? think about 7-9 classes per day, probably the same lesson. Not my idea of stressfree.

The money from Westgate is pretty standard for such dispatch jobs. It is certainly plenty to live on, so I don't know what "conflicting reports" you heard. Expect to spend half the salary on basic necessities. Do a search for Westgate in the Japan forums for more info.

[anyway]

I neglected to mention Oman earlier. A graduate degree is certainly preferred, but it all just depends on how badly they need teachers when you apply. Teachers are placed throughout the semester. This is definitely not the place for privates, but it pays well and offers a lot of free time.

[chickyabroad]

@Glenski, thanks for the extra info on Westgate. Yes, I'm aware that they are a dispatch agency, but the actual teaching would be to university students, correct? And a short term job would be a pro for me, if it fits in my schedule. I'm not looking to stay in Japan long term, especially as I know I'm not qualified for a real uni job there. It would just be to fill the time before doing the grad program in the summer and to get some exposure to teaching uni level.

As for stress free, I think that's a matter of opinion. Yes, the number of classes is a lot, but teaching the same lesson over and over again is less stressful to me than teaching a completely new lesson each time. It gives time to work out the kinks of the lesson, though can get a little boring by the end sometimes. And the conflicting reports on the salary are from a thread on the Japan board about teaching at Westgate - some said it was difficult to save much, others said they were able to save quite a bit. I would imagine it depends on exactly where the person was placed and what kind of lifestyle they lead.

@Anyway, I forgot to mention Oman too, mostly because I'm not too hopeful that I'll be offered a job there. I have applied for one so far, but might try looking for more. And thanks for the info via PM.

I've gotten one bite on a mass of resumes I sent out to different Korean universities.... so hopefully that will come to something. After reading over what I wrote, I think that might be my best bet for now. Though Istanbul is growing on me, the job is still miserable.