Job Discussion Forums

ssean · Joined: 17 Oct 2004 Posts: 23 Location: new zealand

Hi guys, a question for you fellows with your local knowledge. Have got a masters in language teaching and am thinking about doing a doctorate in education. I remember reading on this site a while ago, if you have a phd you could more or less write your own contract. Does this have any truth to it? Would having a Phd boost my job prospects? Thanx Laughing

China.Pete · Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 547

If you read these forums extensively, you will find that the wages and working conditions for the majority of jobs in China hardly justify the expense of a bachelor's degree, not alone a doctorate. You might well be able to "write your own contract," but for the extra �500 or �1,000 a month (over a 10-month contract) the advanced degree might net you at a university it would hardly be worth your while. International schools will pay more, but for a teaching license and classroom experience, not necessarily the doctorate. Also, your contract will likely be a standardized one. You might want to read the articles available at http://middlekingdomlife.com/ . They can point you in the general direction of what sort of job you can expect with your qualifications (current or prospective), what you might earn, and where you should be looking for it.

ssean · Joined: 17 Oct 2004 Posts: 23 Location: new zealand

thanks for the feedback, not good news then

Jayray · Joined: 28 Feb 2009 Posts: 373 Location: Back East

In Jiangsu, the highest wage that I've seen for Ph.Ds at public universities in Jiangsu is 7,800RMB per month.

No, you won't be able to "write your own contract" at a public university. You MIGHT not even be allowed to teach beyond the sophomore level, and if you do, it is doubtful that you'll be allowed to teach any content courses unless the school can't fill the position for a Chinese teacher.

And you can add this to the mix: more and more public schools are adopting a policy of a one-term maximum (extendable for good behavior and effective teaching) for new foreign teacher hirees, regardless of the level of the degree. This was confirmed by the dean and FAO of my own university. If you read the public university adverts for Jiangsu province on some job websites, you'll probably notice this caveat or see it on a copy of your contract when you begin negotiations with a school in Jiangsu.

If you are an effective teacher, there may be perks accorded to you along the way that MIGHT not be offered to lower degree holders, but it won't amount to much.

Your best bet is to apply for a position, negotiate whatever you can (not much), then gain the experience which may allow you to teach at another school which places a greater value upon ability than upon paper.

That's not to say that a Ph.D isn't a plus for a new foreign teacher. There are schools that prefer Ph.Ds over MA's. That bona fide Ph.D degree will give you access to jobs to which other degree holders cannot gain access. Some public universities, however, aren't worth your time regardless of which degree you hold or how much are paid.

If you seek a position at an American University with a Ph.D in your hand, your chances of being hired in America are greater if you have the classroom teaching under your belt, especially if your teaching experience in China relates to your degree in some way. I can't speak of other western university systems, but this appears to be true in the states.

In short, if you seek a Ph.D solely for better pay in China, you'll never recover your expenses incurred during your Ph.D studies.

Caveat: I am speaking for Jiangsu province only. Other terms and conditions may apply. Don't try this at home. Void where prohibited. See your doctor if you are taking any over-the-counter medications, etc., etc., etc..

kungfucowboy83 · Joined: 25 Jan 2006 Posts: 479

international schools and international programs will be very glad to have someone with a phd and pay you an decent wage. don't bother with lower end universities, they don't care enough about getting someone with your level of education to pay for it.

If you are planning a career in china you might try some of the top tier universities as it will give you guanxi and reputation for later on, but because you can get such side benefits they won't pay all that well (at least from what i hear).

mike w · Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:48 am Post subject:

Depending on what you gained your Ph.D in, don't even consider any sort of school/university position.

Go for the corporate world, here salaries in excess of RMB20k monthly are commonplace, and sometimes they even go over the 30k mark.

I speak from my own experience, and that of my colleagues.

shenyanggerry · Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 619 Location: Canada

A few years ago I had a colleague with a Phd in Applied Linguistics. I have a BA in History and a TEFL Certificate. He was paid 500 Kwai more a month than I was getting. He also helped the department dean write his dissertation in addition to his teaching workload which was the same as mine.

Russell123 · Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 237

If teaching is something you really want to pursue, you're much better off with a B.Ed. than a Ph.D. My ex was offered 35K RMB/month to teach in an international school in Shanghai, but turned it down in favour of an even more lucrative offer in Europe. She has a B.Ed. and an MA like yourself.

My friend has a Ph.D. from OISE in Toronto and the last time I talked to him he was working as a UPS courier. He works part time as an teacher's assistant in a public school.

You might enjoy this article if you are thinking about a plunge back into the academy: http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2009/01/2009013001c.htm

daveups · Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:51 am Post subject:

Don't most people getting Ph. D's do so so that they can teach in a uni in their home country?

I agree with the above that you wouldn't make much more with a Ph D. If you really want to go through all that work, stick it out at home and make a decent salary there.

Jayray · Joined: 28 Feb 2009 Posts: 373 Location: Back East

Shan-Shan · Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 1074 Location: electric pastures

Unappreciated and unsought after in their own country, isn't China where broken-down, rusted-out Ph.Ds come for their obscure, dusty deaths?

There are no dreams of greatness to taunt the determined Ph.D off its futile path circling the fringes of China's education system. And once the nauseating dullness of the foray is worn down to dust, the funerals and eulogies come cheap.

An easy flop to make.

Yes Sir I Can Bogey · Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Posts: 201

Jayray · Joined: 28 Feb 2009 Posts: 373 Location: Back East

ssean · Joined: 17 Oct 2004 Posts: 23 Location: new zealand

Used the search and find my old post but I'm still interested to see if there are any more opinions out there.

brsmith15 · Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 1142 Location: New Hampshire USA

In the top unis here, a PhD DOES matter, but it needs to be in a specific field like science or business. Where I taught last, they were paid 1,000 RMB per teaching hour for subjects like math, physics, marketing, economics, finance, which was 200 more per hour than someone with a master's/MBA. BS/BA folks weren't even considered.

Of course, you know the most oft-used phrase of somene with a doctorate in education? "Would you like fries with that?"

Those who can, do. Those who can't teach. Those who can neither do not teach, teach how to teach.

If you're going to put in the time and effort for a PhD, get one that you can actually use productively both here and your home country.