Job Discussion Forums

[naturegirl321]

This was recently being discussed on another board. Personally, I think that kids learn fastest, but they have to be constantly immersed in the language or they will forget. I honestly don't think adults might the best learners simply because they often have other pressing time commitments such as work and family that they can't dedicate themselves enough to the languages (though some in some cases, such as diplomats, they DO learn quickly)

What do you think? Kids learn fast, there's no doubt, but they might only scratch the surface as far as grammar and vocab goes and they tend to forget quickly.

Teens have a more advanced vocab and grammar, though might not be motivated.

Adults have a mature grasp of their own langauge so should learn another well, but often lack the time to study and get held back by trying to understand everything, like grammar, for example.

[santi84]

That is a difficult question if you throw in situational variables. I would assume anyone immersed in an L2 environment would learn faster than someone who only studies the L2 for 45 minutes per week.

I really can't remember my source on this, but situational variables aside, isn't it true that adults learn English better than children?

Everyone (who hasn't taught ESL, or even those who do) assume that children learn faster because they often lose any accent and can be indistinguishable from a native speaker by high school (at least in an ESL environment, not EFL). However, adults are at a disadvantage just through the accent - also, they are unable to express their complex thoughts as eloquently in English as they would like, which makes their learning experience frustrating.

Not to mention, nobody takes into account how long the student is learning - an adult starts learning at age 30 but isn't fluent by age 32, so people assume they don't learn as fast. However, a child comes over to Canada or the US at age 5, is native fluent by 15, and people assume that children learn faster. The child has had more time to learn, but it often isn't recognized.

I don't actually know the answer to this poll btw

[jdl]

The research is very clear on this one with the prime window of language learning predisposition being the early years...ages 0-7 most ideally, but extending to early teens.

As you point out there is a difference between pedagogy and andragogy since adults have 'passed the prime' so to speak and often benefit from more direct instruction than do children. However, having said that the most effective adult instructional environment is immersion as it is with children. The other pressing time comittments such as a job, family etc. you mention seldom make immersion a possibility for an adult. Once children get into school and the demands of their studies in their native language become more demanding the feasibility of immersion decreases as well.

You are indeed correct that a predictor of an adult's fluency/skill in L2 is indeed his/her fluency in L1. This may explain the whole esd phenomenon? There is always the issue of interference but adults tend to 'think' their way through this so fluency and skill in L1 is a definite asset.

It is interesting that children learn languages without reference to grammar and in fact learn it better, initially, without an analysis of the language while adults or perhaps just the teachers of adults seem to have a need for this. There is a school of thought that much of the androgogy surrounding esl is largely based on outdated theories of effective language learning and for the most part 'industry serving'. Another discussion perhaps?

An interesting subject. Thank you

[tomstone]

Children are less shy about speaking up and at least TRYING.

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

This poll is fine, as is the discussion taking place. If you don't happen to like this poll, please feel free to come up with one of your own. Comments criticizing the poll because it is felt not to be up to a particular personal standard will be deleted. This may be only the first step in the process.

[naturegirl321]

[runthegauntlet]

I voted kids just for the sheer volume of information they learn and the time in which they do it.

How much they retain...well, that would go across the board I'd think. If you don't use something, you tend to forget it no matter what the age.

I've had several kindy/first year elementary kids who knew all of five English words when they started but after five or six months could hold conversations better than many of my middle school students. Of course, their willingness to speak certainly helps with that...