Job Discussion Forums

[fladude]

Anyone else encountered these teaching facilities that only hire Brits/Canadians/Aussies or NZ's?

I was actually applying to one company for CELTA training next year (I'm a teacher in the US now) and was told they could help me find a job, but that it would be totally impossible to ever work for them because they don't hire Americans....

I wasn't even trying to get a job with them, but I just thought it was hilarious that they thought I would send them my money for an education and then have them discriminate against people from my country. It seems no different than a black man giving money to a member of the KKK for training. Well it might be a little different, but certainly not much.

I think that if you are in the market for a TEFL/CELTA program and you are an American, that you should make sure that you aren't giving any money to a school that doesn't hire anyone from your entire country. Whether you want to work for them or not isn't the issue. . . .

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

Postings will be on topic or they will be deleted.

Postings attacking or insulting specific nationalities or board members will also be deleted and it is highly probable very severe sanctions will follow.

Sanctions can and do include permanent banning along with the iSP.

[Justin Trullinger]

This is probably a good question to ask when applying to a CELTA/TESOL center. I presume they don't advertise this practice to prospective TESOL applicants, and I agree, it's one I'd avoid.

Probably best to check out their website for their teacher application procedures as well...

Best,
Jsutin

[fluffyhamster]

The CELTA center said they don't hire Americans, but did they say precisely why not (or did you leave the conversation at that, Fladude)? Perhaps their saying that has something to do with work-visa regs in the country in which the center is located? (In which case, it would surely be "good" that the center brings the topic up, so that those Americans who might decide to study there aren't under any misapprehensions about their immediate/local work prospects upon completing the course. "Guarantees" of post-course work and all that).

Anyway, the flip side of the coin is that there is a fair bit of pro-American/anti-anyone-else hiring done - I've seen a fair number of ads in Japan that request that applicants be (ideally, or only) Americans (though sometimes Canadian English seems to also be considered acceptable, in that the ads request 'North Americans').

Should this sort of thing ever happen? Ideally, no. The problem however is that usually at least the customer is always right, and even if employers the world over were somehow forced to hire non-prejudicially, it would probably be very hard if not impossible to prevent private students from still hiring only the exact teachers they want.

And thinking about it, if I were to want to learn to speak, say, the Wu dialect (more like, regionalect/topolect) of Chinese, I'd likely be more inclined to hire a native Shanghainese than a Beijinger, but for learning more the nationally-promulgated language, Putonghua - effectively, Mandarin - I'd be happy to stick with the Shanghainese person (and indeed Putonghua is what I spoke and had spoken in reply to me when I lived in Shanghai).

Unfortunately for English, there doesn't seem to be quite the same perception that there is (for Mandarin Chinese at least of) any sort of common standard more than there is not, despite the fact that English serves in at least its written form as the lingua franca not only of the native English-speaking countries but the world generally, and in its spoken forms appears more mutually-intelligible than the various forms of Chinese say.

[fladude]

I can say that the CELTA programs decision had nothing to do national regulations. The country allows Americans to work there and there are other programs in the country that hire American instructors. As such, it has to be a corporate decision.

I'm not much of a social activist, but at the same time, it is my money.... if a company doesn't want Americans to work there, then I don't want to spend my money there.

They may well be able to help place me in a job someplace else, but again that's not why I decided not to go there. I actually got this information from an American who works at a competing firm in that country. Of course, I immediately confronted the CELTA program in question with this information. The CELTA program in question confirmed that they did not hire Americans, but promised to help me find a job someplace else.

I decided to pass on their offer....

Its not a huge deal. I'm no social crusader. But I do still have some loyalty to my people. I fully agree that there could be a legitimate reason to offer schooling in only one dialect. But I can't see how that would apply to a CELTA program..... Surely they don't think I'm going to adopt a British accent while I'm going through training there......

[fluffyhamster]

I must admit that from what you're saying, the situation does sound a little bit strange/off, Fladude. If that CELTA center is indeed an official one, perhaps you should contact UCLES and see what they have to say about that center's apparent policy. Just out of interest.

[fladude]

[ntropy]

Ads posting requirements for specific nationalities often do so because the hiring organization has only been able to acquire visas for people of that specific nationality.

It's not often by choice; it must may be the only nationality specific visa available to them.

[Justin Trullinger]

There are sometimes visa requirements...in Spain, everybody preferred the British, simply for the ease of getting them visas.

Here in Ecuador, I once ran into trouble on a government contract that I was administrating for the organisation where I work, over having Canadian teachers. The high level bureaucrat who was in charge of the program on the government end was under the impression that Canadians all speak French at home, so their English couldn't really be "as good as an American." Dumb, I realize, but it's the kind of prejudice you run into the world over.

In Spain, I was frequently asked if I speak English, or only American.

Prejudices, even dumb ones, are everywhere. I guess I feel that an educational organisation should be trying to educate people about these weird ideas they have about English, rather than pandering to them. I imagine that a lot of people in my position would rather say "the customer is always right," though, as this is often a more lucrative proposal than trying to educate the customers that are wrong.

There is one center in the city where I live that seems to have "British English" as a marketing point- it's no more trouble to get visas for Americans, or anybody else for that matter, here in Ecuador. It's more of a business strategy that anything practical, as far as I can see.


Best,
Justin

[johnslat]

Dear Justin,

Just a small quibble, but aren't ALL prejudices dumb?

"noun
1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.
4. such attitudes considered collectively: The war against prejudice is never-ending.
5. damage or injury; detriment: a law that operated to the prejudice of the majority.

Regards,
John

[Justin Trullinger]

Dear John,

All but MINE are dumb. (Isn't this what everybody really thinks?)


Best,
Justin

[fladude]

[johnslat]

Dear fladude,

If you really want to oppose prejudice, then no Americans should give a dime to any company that advertises "American English," and no Brits should give ten pence to any company that advertises "British English," either.

Regards,
John

[fladude]

[scot47]

There are employers working outside the USA who insist on hiring only those who are US citizens or residents.
I cannot say that I worry about this much - though it meant I could not go and work for Boose Allen in KSA.

Equally there are employers I know of who will only hire British passport-holders.