Job Discussion Forums

[raclyn72]

the 5 year rule.

A bit of when this started. My passport expired in February this year and that meant my rp and z visa also expired. So I got a new passport from the Canadian embassy in Beijing no problem and since the end of January my boss has been working on getting my new z visa and rp. This has turned out to be a major kerfuffle with spring festival smack dab in the middle of it. Alot more difficult to get anything done here around that time. Within the last 2 weeks my boss and I have had meetings about me going to HongKong to get my new z visa and such. I got an email last night and it talks about the 5 year rule and I would have to leave China for 2 years. But he's going to try his best to fix it even tho it's almost "out of his power". Why was nothing said to me earlier about this actual enforcement of the 5 year rule? Or maybe it wasn't even told to my boss earlier and he's dealing with a new face at the government office.

I've been in China teaching for about 8 years now and was aware of this possible rule after visiting esl forums but also know this is China and some things may/may not be true. But crap this sucks, I've rented an apartment till August and have pets.

I'm in Shi Jia Zhuang in Hebei province

I just found this article on the net also http://middlekingdomlife.com/blog/latest_news/safea-foreign-teachers-and-chinese-boxes/

Anyone else had experience with this? I'm kinda freakin out here.

[XiGua]

Wow that sucks. I imagine there would be a way around it since most people don't even know about it and it doesn't seem to be enforced except when they get bored. I hope you can get it situated.

[ymmv]

Are you at a public school or a private one?

Which government branch raised the 5 year issue? You need to ask your "boss" and have him give you a specific answer. Was it the Provincial Education Bureau? The local Foreign Experts Bureau? The local PSB? Your own school?

Depending on his answer, there are different ways to deal with it.

[raclyn72]

I'm at a public high school. I am part of an educational company from Australia that places teachers at the schools they have partnerships with here in China.

Getting a straight answer? Don't know if I would believe whatever it was said anyway. The blame game is often played here.

My boss doesn't speak English-I deal with him thru a Chinese teacher whose role is kind of as my assistant for school related matters. Getting straight answers from him is even difficult for my assistant from what she has said.

Even if this did get sorted out here with the Shi Jia Zhuang government official (they give me the correct documents to apply for a z visa in HK). Could the Chinese embassy in HK say no-we can't give you a visa because you've been in China for more than 5 years.

Yeah, I'm kind of thinking my boss had the unfortunate luck of talking to a government official who hadn't had his lunch yet, the moon was in a certain spot of it's phase and the temperature rose by1/2 a degree that day. Dealing with fickle people here sometimes.

I'm glad I have all weekend to mull about this. geesh.

[raclyn72]

Also I don't think it was my school who raised the 5 year issue- after what I have observed since early February when he started this process for getting me a new rp and z visa. He has pretty much shown no signs of what to do.

Example- I gave him my passport early February and that same week he wanted me to get a medical exam, fine. But I was thinking to myself-well I would need my passport for that. I didn't say anything but sure enuf we went to the medical building they asked for it and then we had to wait while the driver went back to the school and picked up my passport.

Out of curiosity besides my boss establishing some "guan xi" relationships why does it differ which branch has imposed this rule?

[Moon Over Parma]

Shijiazhuang has started to follow the books when it comes to foreigners. Why they have implemented many of these official, often racist policies is beyond me, but it's true. This includes numerous hotels that have ample room and no difference from the over-priced "three star" hotels now having to turn away all foreigners. Instead of a reasonable 120 RMB for a decent room you're being forced into staying in the over-priced, sometimes poorer quality hotels "approved for foreigners." The difference is anywhere between 100-200 RMB a night. Why? Because you're a foreigner.

One of my colleagues who worked for the Wuhan office of my employer received a promotion and had to relocate to Shijiazhuang. This required a new FEC and other paperwork just like most teachers would when changing employers between provinces. They refused to do the transfer because he'd go from having a teaching visa to an employment visa, since this is a multi-media job for an educational organization, and he will no longer be teaching. This wasn't a problem for the company last year, but this year Hebei province is making people in his position do a visa run in a third country, as though he was applying from scratch. When pressed why, they cited regulations from the central government: Beijing.

I think you're seeing a slow change to following these old, mostly racist laws that have been on books for some time finally being enforced more often. Parts of Guangzhou, Shanghai, and of course Beijing are following things much closer to a "T" these days.

Of course, this is China and your employer may use the "five year rule" as an excuse. It's on the books but rarely enforced. They know the rule is there because it's their business to know, and the time has come where they want to cut someone loose they can pull out an actual law that just happens to be rarely ever enforced in some parts.

It may very well not be the case, but in China the pendulum sings in a way that the variables regarding one's outcome are not so clear. Good luck.

[ymmv]

There's not much to mull if you or your Chinese helper can't get the answer to which department is doing this. The Chinese government is not a single, all encompassing monollith, despite appearances to the contrary. Different bureaus have different rules and often don't know what the other offices are doing or why.

To answer the easy question, the consulate in HK will issue the visa if it is presented with the proper Request to Issue Z-Visa.

The 5 Year Rule is a SAFEA rule but it is not enforced nationwide. However some provincial Foreign Expert Bureaus can and are enforcing it. Also some provincial Education Bureaus have such a rule.

If it's being enforced by the Education Bureau and they will not or cannot be convinced to change it for you, then they will not issue the papers necessary to get the Z-visa.

There's an alternative route to getting a Z-Visa issued and that is through the local Labor Bureau. They have the power to issue Z-visas. They are separate from and independent of the Education Bureau. However, to get that, you have to be doing a job that can't be filled by a Chinese. Your situation might be perfect for going this route - you say you are here as part of an education company. Change the contract with your school so that you come in as an "education consultant" not as a "foreign teacher". You bypass the Education Bureau. Going that route has its own requirements so your boss will have to look into what your local labor bureau requires and if its possible.

If it's the local PSB that's enforcing the rule, then no matter which way you go, they're not going to ultimately issue the Residence Permit so you're SOL.

That's why it's important to know EXACTLY where in the system the bottleneck is occurring and why you need to have the question asked and answered before you can mull anything over.

EDIT:
I was typing this as MOP posted the previous message. His story about his friend's situation fits with what I mentioned above. Because his friend was changing jobs from teaching to media, it requires a new Z-visa through the labor bureau. And since the rules were changed pre-Olympics that all new Z-visas have to be issued outside China, his friend had to leave. But you raclyn already know that as you are prepared to go to HK.

[Zero]

So in Shijiazhuang, is anyone actually getting sent home because of the five-year rule?

[Jayray]

"They refused to do the transfer because he'd go from having a teaching visa to an employment visa..."

A Z visa IS an employment visa.

[raclyn72]

I was wondering about that too zero, maybe they are or they leave Shi Jia Zhuang and work in another part of China. Schools looking for new teachers may pass over a teacher if after reading his/her resume and finding out that they've been in China for close to/or 5 years. That is if the school is aware of this 5 year rule. Or maybe the new teacher moves here and then the school finds out. Fun either way.

[johntpartee]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I never really understood this 5-year rule thing or what the purpose of it is. Anyone have any idea why they do things like this?

[XiGua]

[johntpartee]

A quick and painless way to get rid of a teacher who's outlived his usefulness.

[wangdaning]