Job Discussion Forums

munchie · Joined: 19 Oct 2009 Posts: 8

My boyfriend and I have accepted positions at Real English in Yogyakarta and were due to start on the 2nd of February. However we have just been informed by the HR man that the Indonesian embassy is re structuring their sytem which will delay the issuing of our visas by six to eight weeks! We have spent all our money on flights and have given notice on our flat in the UK. If we don't go now we will be homeless and penniless! My question is should we go anyway and collect the visas when they are ready or not go at all!!??? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

malu · Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 1344 Location: Sunny Java

Call me a cynical old scrote, but something doesn't quite smell right here. 6-8 weeks is remarkably similar to the period of time it takes to raise and grant a work visa. I'd bet that the school screwed up on the visa process and had to start over, and the 'restructuring of the embassy' tale is merely a face-saving device. I've just cruised the London embassy website and can't find anything about visa delays either in English or Indonesian.

If you hold return tickets to Indo then this is not such a problem because you can enter on a tourist visa which you pick up on arrival at the airport in Indonesia. This is valid for 30 days, during which time the school should send you out to Singapore for a day or two to pick up a pukka work visa there. Contact the school immediately and ask them if they will do it that way.

munchie · Joined: 19 Oct 2009 Posts: 8

Hi thanks for the reply. It sounded a bit fishy to me too and have had a look at the embassy website which, as you say, has no mention of delays!
Our problem is that we only have one way tickets to Kuala lumpur as this is where we were meant to collect the visas from. We intended to book forward tickets to yogyakarta before we fly out from london. Really not sure what to do! I have emailed the school but won't hear back until tomorrow.
Do you think we could enter Indonesia without an outbound ticket or would they send us back?
Thanks

malu · Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 1344 Location: Sunny Java

Firstly, you will need to book the onward tickets to Yogya before you try to fly out to KL as you can't get into Malaysia without an onward ticket. I suggest that you buy a cheap return KL-YOG-KL and that way you can enter Indonesia without any hassle. If you try to fly from KL to Indonesia with a single ticket and no visa they almost certainly won't allow you to board the plane.

scooby doo · Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Posts: 48

That is quite disappointing...
It does sound fishy, like malu said. Try asking them to sponsor you on a socio-cultural visa. This visa does not allow you work legally but it is valid initially for 60 days (giving more time for the permanent visa to be sorted out). I don't think you need an onward ticket to enter on this visa, but I'm not entirely sure. the good thing however, you can get it fast at any embassy, all it requires is a sponsorship letter from the school, a copy of their local school permit and the ID card of the Indonesian sponsor (probably the manager or owner of the school). If they refuse this option, then something is indeed not quite right.

General advice in the future; arrange your flights, etc after you have proof that the school is indeed sponsoring you. All it takes is for the school to send you a scan of any document with your name on it that is relevant to the visa application process. Or better yet, wait for the visa to actually manifest before purchasing a ticket. (even if the fares are higher...) you will feel more reassured that the school is about to honor its commitment. Also, ask to be updated on the various stages of your visa application, ask tons of inane questions to get a sense of whether the school is handling your papers efficiently.

Good Luck, I hope you make it to Indonesia!

aku_tonpa · Joined: 03 May 2004 Posts: 63

Hi,
If you come on a tourist visa and your working visa isn't ready in 30 days, you will have to fly out anyhow and re-enter on a new tourist visa. Therefore, you will need an outbound ticket regardless. I guess the same is true if it was ready; going to Singapore or KL to collect it (you might be able to get this money back from the school).

Saying that, I have entered Indonesia on a tourist visa without paying for an outbound ticket.

munchie · Joined: 19 Oct 2009 Posts: 8

Thanks for all the opinions, I did want to wait until the visa had gone through but the guy handling all our application etc said he neede our flight details before he could submit the paperwork. We were so excited about going to Indo and now feel like it might not happen and that this guy is maybe trying to rip us off somehow!! Thanks

malu · Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 1344 Location: Sunny Java

Nothing so far suggests this is a rip-off, more like a bit of good old fashioned incompetence.

Remember that the employer has to go to a lot of expense to raise visas and obviously they don't want to do that if there is a risk of you simply not turning up - that is probably why they asked for flight details. By the same token, you don't want to lash out money only to find the employer hasn't delivered on the visa.

Find out asap what the school suggests as plan B then check it out on this forum or the 'livinginindonesia' expat forum (do a Google search).

phis · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 250

Let's be realistic and deal with things point by point:
1. It is normal here for work permits/visas to take 2 to 3 months to come through. Sometimes it's faster; sometimes slower. However, unless you have been accepted for a job and signed a contract months in advance, your visas will not normally be ready before you arrive.
2. Because of the huge expense involved in employing foreign workers, many schools (including reputable ones!), do not like to start the visa procedure before the prospective employees have, in fact, arrived.
3. As this might sound daunting to people who have never worked here before, and because this might make them think something 'fishy' is going on, even reputable schools may 'fudge' the issue. This may be what is happening in your case.
4. It is normal for people to come in on a 'one month visa on arrival', or a 'two month social/cultural/business visa'. You are not supposed to work on these visas so you must be discreet when you arrive; so if asked, you must say you are here to travel and meet friends, etc. Normally you will not be asked!
5. To get a two month social/cultural/business visa, which will be the best one for your purpose, you go to the Indonesian Consulate in Kuala Lumpur, Penang or Singapore (it depends on the point of entry/departure of your ticket from England). Penang is the easiest consulate to deal with, by the way!!).
6. The above visas have different requirements, but they normally have the same application form. For the two month social (read tourist) visa, you DO NOT NEED a sponsor, so you leave that section blank on the application form. You also leave blank any question relating to work (e.g. your employer/sponsor in home country, etc.). (N.B. If in doubt about any section, leave it blank; you will be told if you need to fill in that particular section).
7. The one requirement you DO need for the above visas is a return ticket: KL-INDONESIA-KL or PENANG-INDONESIA-PENANG or SINGAPORE-INDONESIA-SINGAPORE. The consulate will ask to see the original ticket, and you will also have to provide them with a copy. You can get very cheap tickets as your return ticket will be two months in advance. Be careful that your �return date� ties in with what you put on your visa application form.
8. You will not be asked this question; but just in case: if asked for a return ticket Malaysia-Home Country, you say that you haven't decided the exact date of your return yet, as you may decide to travel to other countries.
9. The advantage of the two month visa is that it can be extended two or three times. You do not need to leave Indonesia to do this. For this to happen you do need a sponsor, but if you are already 'unofficially employed' by a school, they will do this for you. They obviously will not be able to put their name on this, but they will have people who can sponsor you for an extension.
10. You are obviously committed to coming here... so what is the worst thing that can happen.... a) As long as you have enough money to survive for one or two months, you will have a really enjoyable holiday, even if the job falls through. Remember that it is incredibly cheap to live here. b) If Real English turns out to be a rip-off (sorry, I don't know them, so I can't comment): there are so many good schools here desperate for teachers, you will have no problems in finding another job. It may not be in Yogya, but once you are in-country you will be able to investigate other possibilities. c) You will make so many friends here that someone will point you in the right direction....
All the best with everything! If you ever get to Medan, look me up and we will have a beer together.

phis · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 250

PS: For cheap tickets KL-Indonesia-KL, or Penang-Indonesia-Penang, try Air Asia. You can buy the ticket on-line and you just print off your e-ticket and present this at the check-in desk.

munchie · Joined: 19 Oct 2009 Posts: 8

Wow! Thanks for that reply phis very helpful indeed! We have decided to just postpone for two months which will give us time to save a bit more money etc. and we'll be here for a couple of family events we would have missed. Thank you very much for all your help when we do eventually arrive in Indo we'll track you all down and buy you dinner and beer!!!

travelNteach · Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Posts: 222

real english is a school founded by a group of disgruntled former EF teachers. i have never head anything negative about the group in yogya, however several years ago they sold a franchaise to a group in batam that turned into a complete disaster, but no fault of those in yogya. i believe they pay slightly more that EF yogya.

to addresss some issues brought up by phis......... things are different in different parts of indonesia.

1. in jakarta they clear the application for a work visa 2x a month, so normal processing is 4-6 weeks, usually 4.

2. the expenses are not that great. usually the schools dont pay the bule tax until after the kitas have been activated. so the initial costs to the agent are nominal because the total cost to the agent also includes taking the teacher to immigration and the national police after they have arrived back with their work permits and kitas.

3. it is actually cheaper for the schools to have the teachers pick up the kitas before they come to indoneisa, this saves them the cost of an agent in the home country and/or the return airfare to singapore/malaysia and the agent fees in those countries. of course some schools will ask u to lay over in singapore and have the visa processed by their agent there. they only need to fax a copy of the approval to the embassy in order to process the work visa.

6. you DO need a sponsor for a social bud visa. business visas are extremely expensive. and u are right, u cannot work on any of these visas.

7/8. to enter malaysia u need an ongoing ticket as u do with indonesia. try air asia for the cheapest tickets. i just arrived back in jakarta earlier this week, and they pulling people out of line that didnt have ongoing tickets. i have seen this the last couple of times i have come back to jkt. things are a lot tougher than they used to be, and malaysia has always been a lot more strict than indonesia. but again this may depend on the port of entry.

9. if the school cannot get the kitas and work visa sorted after 30 days, i wouldnt work for them. it is my butt on the line, not the schools.

10. you are right, they should be able to find other work, depending if they have any experience, education, and/or esl credentials. usually there is an EF somewhere in indo that is hiring. but the OP said that they are penniless and homeless, so i dont think they could come here and enjoy a couple of months and say they had a great holiday.

i think the OP would be well served to contact a bunch of other EF or language schools and have a plan B firmly in place. when the arrive at real english, it anything seems amiss, head directly to the next school.

generally i agree with the things u said, but wanted to show that things are different in jakarta and might be different in yogya as well. maybe other people at language schools can shed light whether they were asked to work illegally by schools when the arrived and how long it took them to get the proper permits. all 3 times that i arrived in indonesia to work, i had my visas before i arrived.

good luck to the OP and her bf. in the past it has always been easy to sidestep regulations, but i think this is getting more difficult. i think we do people a diservice when when continually advise people to break indonesian laws and work illegally or come without ongoing tickets.

malu · Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 1344 Location: Sunny Java

I must take issue with travel&teach over his/her statement that the up-front costs involved in approving a work visa are not great. Remember we are talking about 2 FTs here and the tough bit (requiring the most bribery) is in actually getting the Manpower and Transmigration Dept to disgorge an approval letter. Issuing the visa is the easy bit.

It is cheaper overall to arrange a visa from the home country than to faff about with a visa run to Sing or KL but only if your new FTs actually show up. Also, in a country like the UK it costs far more to travel from, say, Leeds to London (where the Indo embassy is) by train at peak times than it does to fly return Jak to Sing!

Even the very best employers sometimes have to resort to bringing FTs in on a tourist visa. Most of us have come in that way at least once.

phis · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 250

You're right Malu. I think people have their heart in the right place when responding to these messages, but unless you have experience of both sides of the fence, i.e. a teacher going through the process several times, and at all the aforementioned consulates, and a DOS having to process hundreds of these visa applications, it is too easy to get sidetracked by hearsay and/or your personal good or bad experiences.

I am a teacher, and an ex-DOS, with eight years experience of jumping through the administrative hoops here in Indonesia, so I can, and have, written objectively about this subject. As a DOS in one school, I was also responsible for 'costing out' the total expense of hiring foreign teachers, as this had to be set against any possible profit from running classes. The first time I did this I was absolutely horrified at the huge expense of hiring foreign workers. I had never considered this when working just as a teacher, and I would whinge along with everyone else at the 'imagined' huge profits made by the owners, set against the 'poor, ill-treated, underpaid teachers'. Most schools do make a profit (they are businesses in the first place), but one of their largest expenses is the hiring of foreign teachers.

phis · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 250

TravelNTeach, I would just like to address a couple of points in your detailed and informative response to mine:

7/8 I'm not sure what you intended here, as you are just re-stating what I already said in my post. To make it clearer: You need an on-going ticket to show you are only transiting in Malaysia. This will be your ticket to Indonesia. This needs to be a return Malaysia-Indonesia-Malaysia, to show Indonesian Immigration that you do intend to leave Indonesia within the time limit set. You need to buy this BEFORE you leave your home country, in order to satisfy Malaysian Immigration of your intention to TRANSIT ONLY. I recommended Air Asia as you can buy a cheap ticket online while still in your home country.

NB: If you have already bought a one way HOME COUNTRY- INDONESIA ticket, you only need to buy a one way INDONESIA-MALAYSIA ticket with a departure date set within your visa time limit, to show to Indonesian Immigration. You WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO ENTER INDONESIA ON A TOURIST VISA UNLESS YOU HAVE A VALID TICKET SHOWING A DEPARTURE DATE!

9. A very 'subjective' statement based on your personal experience. The fact is that a large number of foreigners DO NOT manage to get their visas issued within 30 days.

YOUR CLOSING PARAGRAPHS: Nobody was advising, encouraging or coercing people into breaking Indonesian laws. The OP wanted to know what was going on in her situation, and I attempted to set out OBJECTIVELY what the situation is here and how things function. It is up to the OP and her boyfriend to decide what to do in their case; and I believe they have already done that.