Job Discussion Forums

canuckophile · Joined: 04 Feb 2004 Posts: 19

Sorry I posted this on what looked like a thread on job/ contract stuff but it really isn't so may get 'lost' in comments on other matters. So here goes again....

Does anyone know anything about the INTERNATIONAL COMPANY FOR EDUCATION AND E-LEARNING. I just received an emailed contract from them for KING SAUD UNIVERSITY in Riyadh.. Has anyone ever taught for the company (International Co. for Education and E-learning) or at King Saud University?

Would appreciate QUICK replies/reactions as I have just printed the contract off and am supposed to get it back ASAP. I have not taught in SA before so would appreciated seasoned reactions.... THANK YOU THANK YOU

Thoughts/reactions?

Here's the contract - does it look OK?
The two parties hereby agree to the following terms and conditions:

1. Basic Salary : $3000
2. Position : Teacher
3. Job Responsibility : Second Party shall perform the job satisfactorily according to the assigned duties by the First Party at Riyadh, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. In case the Second Party refuses to perform what has been assigned to him this employment agreement will be discontinued / invalidated and the Second Party will bear all expenses relating to return to their point of origin.
4. Housing Accommodation : First Party shall provide the Second Party with suitable and decent accommodations.
5. Local Transportation : The First Party shall arrange for local transportation of the Second Party from the Company arranged accommodation and between his place of work only. Second Party shall bear all other transportation expenses.
6. Insurance : Social insurance, treatment, and medical insurance for the Second Party shall be borne by the First Party as per the rules and regulations of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Treatment will not be provided for any preexisting conditions and the presence of any such conditions should be made known before signing this contract.
7. Daily Hours of Work : The normal daily working hours as specified in the Kingdom�s rules and local laws shall be applicable to the Second Party on all working days between Saturday to Wednesday. Each Thursday and Friday shall be off each week to the Second Party.
8. Agreement Duration : The agreement duration is for One year starting from the date the Second Party begins work. If the agreement is over and no notice was given by either party, this agreement shall become valid for every subsequent following year.
9. Probationary Period : The probationary period shall be for three months from the date of beginning work.
10. Violation of Terms : Second Party has no right to engage in any other employment or business while on duty or off duty whether for his account or for any other party with or without pay. If the Second Party violates these conditions the First Party shall deduct from the Second Party�s salary, dismiss Second Party from the job, and Second Party will be responsible for compensating the First Party for any damages resulting from such violation.
11. Vacation : Second Party will be entitled to 30 paid vacation days per year. The entitled vacation shall become available only upon completion of one year of employment.
12. Travel Expenses : First Party shall bear the travel expenses of the Second Party for his / her round trip journey by economy class airfare between his place of origin and place of destination in three cases :
� Upon arrival to the point of origin after signing the Agreement.
� After the expiration of this Agreement and Second Party services are no longer required by the First Party.
� Paid vacation once a year
13. Confidentiality : The Second Party shall not reveal any of the Company�s secrets to anyone. The First Party has the right to take suitable legal action against the Second Party if the Second Party reveals any of the company�s secrets.
14. Termination of Agreement : The First Party has the right to cancel this agreement and return the Second Party back to his point of origin in his country if the Second Party commits any violation of Saudi Arabian Rules and Regulations. The Second Party shall bear the cost and all expenses for a return journey in such case. The First Party may terminate this agreement and shall pay the Second Party a sum equivalent to one month�s salary. This contract does not go into effect until the Second Party�s arrival in the Kingdom.
15. Acceptance of Agreement : The Second Party has read and understood all terms and conditions of this contract and has accepted to work for the First Party according to this contract as a final agreement between the two parties that overrules any previous oral or written agreements. Three copies of this contract are signed by the First Party and the Second Party. One copy is for the Second Party.

johnslat · Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:41 pm Post subject:

Dear canuckophile,

Well, the salary's pretty low (but I don't know what qualifications/experience you have), and it doesn't specify the HOURS you'll work - either in the classroom or at the facility or both.) And it seems that you're going through a recruiter (do you know if you're going to get a legal work visa?).

It would be a big help to you if they'd let you contact some teachers already working there. You really don't know what you might be getting into otherwise (the housing, for example - shared or not?)

Regards,
John

BillCowher · Joined: 21 Aug 2009 Posts: 131 Location: Up in the air!!!

13. Confidentiality : The Second Party shall not reveal any of the Company�s secrets to anyone. The First Party has the right to take suitable legal action against the Second Party if the Second Party reveals any of the company�s secrets.

Is it a "secret" if they bring you there on a non-working visa? Is it a secret if you get paid late and complain? Is it a "secret" if your students are lazy? Is it a "secret" if you fly on your own dime & are not promptly reimbursed? These things all happen but not necessarily to all people so you should be very careful what you talk about if you are unhappy with anything that happens when you arrive. Your very first KSA experience is going to be an eye opener to say the least and I hope yours is better than mine.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Labour contracts are not usually negotiable in this part of the world. Not always legally enforceable either.

Mia Xanthi · Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject:

IMHO, thirty days vacation is very skimpy. And it mentions nothing about getting public holidays off.

fredcaselee · Joined: 17 Dec 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Have you pursued this job? I got the same contract today. Somewhat concerning as I have never spoken with anyone at the "International Company for Education and E Learning". I am not sure if this is legit.

freesoul · Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject:

Not O.K

ElJuero · Joined: 24 Jan 2009 Posts: 58

I'm at least the third person to be in the loop on this contract. My primary concern is that it doesn't seem to be a contract with the actual employer.
There are also a number of other issues that I'd like to know about like who is responsible for the medical check etc.....
Looks questionable to me. I haven't signed it.

canuckophile · Joined: 04 Feb 2004 Posts: 19

Thanks for the feedback.

If I take the contract and find that I've signed onto a bad deal (no one commented on the university itself - is it OK?)....

what do I do?

In Korea, where I've worked, all you can do is try to get employer to release you, then you can find another job in Korea, but if they won't, you have to do a runner to the airport and you can't work in Korea again (legally) for something like 2-3 years. (I've never done one, but I did resign one uni contract.)

This is 'getting my feet wet' in the Middle East. I realize SA is not the plum country here. Neither was Korea in Asia.

So again - if it ain't legit or if they don't deliver what contract seems to promise, can I just bolt for the airport? Do I have other options?

Thanks....

CANUCKOPHILE

johnslat · Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:32 am Post subject:

Dear canuckophile,

"So again - if it ain't legit or if they don't deliver what contract seems to promise, can I just bolt for the airport? Do I have other options?"

Nope - you need an exit visa to get out of Saudi and guess who gets (or doesn't get) that for you - your employer.

Oh, sooner or later, if you ever get an exit visa to go on holiday, you could "do a runner," if you ever get a holiday, that is.

"Pulling a runner" has been discussed before:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=77641&highlight=king+saud+university+eiyadh

Sorry, I can't tell toy anything about KSU. Have you tried a "Search" here?
This is what I found:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=74199&highlight=king+saud+university+eiyadh

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=71745&highlight=king+saud+university+eiyadh

Regards,
John

skullytefldude · Joined: 26 Oct 2009 Posts: 17

I have a friend who works for them and they pay on time and they are very nice. They are legit.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

That is meant as a serious recommendation ?

"They are very nice" ???

Chrysanthe · Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 9

Not having any experience in negotiating a contract, can anyone tell me what they have done to remedy a disagreement in what's included? If you're not happy with what has been offered, or what has been stated in the contract you're signing, what have you done? And how has the university responded? I mean, everybody takes a chance when accepting a position overseas. What can a person realistically expect from a Saudi employer? And I ask this sincerely, not sarcastically.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

"Labour contracts are not usually negotiable in this part of the world." is still the position that I take. Employers here will not negotiate on contract terms. Take it or leave it. And when you get here do not expect all the contract terms to be met if you have a dodgy employer.

Before signing your indentures, choose your new master with care !

Chrysanthe · Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 9

Thank you. Kind of what I expected and exactly what I'm experiencing! Those who take the biggest chances get the most memorable experiences, though, right? Wish me luck!