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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:13 pm Post subject: Shenzhen |
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| Can anyone tell me where I can find jobs in Shenzhen that are not through recruiters? Most of the jobs I found online are through recruiters. |
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forwantofabetterusername
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 26
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thefuzz
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Try:
www.shenzhenparty.com
www.shenzhenstuff.com
Why do you even want to work in Shenzhen? It's a horrible place to live and work IMHO. I've been here for 5 months now...getting out at the end of February because I can't stand being here anymore. And, no, I don't have culture shock...been in China for more than 8 years. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| thefuzz wrote: |
| Why do you even want to work in Shenzhen? It's a horrible place to live and work IMHO. I've been here for 5 months now...getting out at the end of February because I can't stand being here anymore. And, no, I don't have culture shock...been in China for more than 8 years. |
it would be helpful if you could add to your post: what's so horrible about shenzhen?
i've been in china for 6 years now, lived in the north/central and southwest china for two years, and have now lived in guangdong for the past four years (one year in shenzhen, three years just outside the city).
there are plenty of reasons someone might want to live and work in shenzhen. the city has a great transportation network and links to other places inside and outside of china, almost any kind of food you could want, its cleaner than most other chinese cities (that includes the air - visit anywhere in north china for comparison), you can be in Hong Kong in no time at all, and if you're a guy (as most on this forum seem to be), there's plenty of single women here.
only two downsides to shenzhen that i can see: 1. not a lot of esl jobs outside of training centres; and 2. its more expensive than other places, but that comes with the territory - major league city - major league prices. |
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thefuzz
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:19 am Post subject: |
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OK let's have a look at the good 'n bad of living in Shenzhen. I'm afraid my list has more bad than good:
THE BAD:
- Air is not as clean as you might expect. Sure, it's better than the North where you will be breathing in coal dust in the winter, but Shenzhen is surrounded by the biggest factory area in all of China. Most of the time there is no blue sky and when I clean my house weekly the dust is not dusty in color...just pitch black.
- The streets are dirty. Most of the people in Shenzhen are immigrants (from other provinces) so they don't care if they throw rubbish everywhere...it's not their town.
- More people spitting on the streets than in Shanghai for example. Why? Chinese people who migrate to Shenzhen often come from small towns or villages (to get jobs in factories) and don't know any better.
- Quality of students. Most of the students I have (or had) in Shenzhen where for the most part less hard working than their counterparts in other big Chinese cities. Also, level of English is much lower. The big corporations that do set up offices here mostly focus on production...all management people are based in other cities like Shanghai or Beijing.
- Almost every day I see a kid either taking a piss or shit on the sidewalk (or nearby the sidewalk) with parents watching on. There is usually a supermarket / restaurant / shopping center nearby, yet they ask their kids to do their business out in the open. Again, lack of basic social skills and education of those who come to Shenzhen looking for gold and riches.
- Apart from training centers, hard to get a job elsewhere. Hence if you want to work and live in Shenzhen you'll have to give up 8 hours of your life, 5 days per week (including weekends).
- Transportation. Sure, lots of buses, but lots of traffic on the roads as well. Since there is only one subway line, it makes things more difficult. Taxis are everywhere, but are not cheap and in traffic not quick either. Basic transportation costs are also higher than in other big Chinese cities... buses cost from 2 to 10 Yuan per trip (depending on distance traveled). Subway from 2 to 5 Yuan per trip.
- Rent. If you want to live in a decent apartment in a decent location it will be expensive. If you don't care where you live or how old the apartment block is...you can get away with paying less.
- Safety. Lots of my students always say that Shenzhen is not safe (and I'm not talking about pickpockets...lots of harder crimes happen on a regular basis). They say to stay away from the Futian and Luohu areas after dark...Nanshan and Shekou seem to be better. Why? People come to Shenzhen with big dreams...but if their dreams don't happen some will turn to a life of crime.
- General living costs are much higher than in some other big cities. My wife and I are always spending 10% more than we did a few months ago in Shanghai...this includes meat, vegetables and daily necessities.
THE GOOD:
- Close to Hong Kong. The first benefit of living in Shenzhen. Where I am located it is only a 15 minute walk to the border.
- Air Asia flies to Bangkok direct from Shenzhen. This is the second benefit...if you're sick of Hong Kong you can do a long weekend trip to Bangkok as tickers are cheap.
OK...that is about it. Looking at other big cities in China, they offer way more than Shenzhen. My personal favorite is Shanghai. It has it all: international status, good restaurants and bars, locals who have better manners than other people in China, lots of work for English teachers (plus higher salaries), etc...
But there are also people who love it here...if you're into women and beer this is the place to be! |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: Shenzhen |
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if i can rebut a few of your points:
| thefuzz wrote: |
THE BAD:
- Air is not as clean as you might expect. Sure, it's better than the North where you will be breathing in coal dust in the winter, but Shenzhen is surrounded by the biggest factory area in all of China. Most of the time there is no blue sky and when I clean my house weekly the dust is not dusty in color...just pitch black. |
shenzhen is in close proximity to the industrial centre of guangdong, this is a fact and it definitely affects the air quality.
as for the winter, during this season most of china is covered in grey, at least everywhere i've gone for a winter vacation in china over the years has been grey and gloomy (with few exceptions). for much of the country that seems to be the weather pattern. summer's different. i've been going to an outdoor swimming pool in nanshan four times a week between may and late september for the past four years and i'm often laying on a lawn chair under a sunny blue sky watching aeroplanes fly overhead.
| thefuzz wrote: |
| - Apart from training centers, hard to get a job elsewhere. Hence if you want to work and live in Shenzhen you'll have to give up 8 hours of your life, 5 days per week (including weekends). |
this is true, but they also pay more than the standard university job that offers you 16 hours per week and 5000/month. if one is after a low stress esl job with low hours (and lower pay) then avoid shenzhen.
| thefuzz wrote: |
| - Transportation. Sure, lots of buses, but lots of traffic on the roads as well. Since there is only one subway line, it makes things more difficult. Taxis are everywhere, but are not cheap and in traffic not quick either. Basic transportation costs are also higher than in other big Chinese cities... buses cost from 2 to 10 Yuan per trip (depending on distance traveled). Subway from 2 to 5 Yuan per trip. |
there are actually two subway lines, one of them is short - only about 5-6 stops, which is maybe your point. but the main line covers the length of the city from luo hu to shenzhen university now, about 25km.
while the subway is relatively short now, its expanding rapidly and by 2011 will extend over a distance of nearly 200km, with 4-5 lines - eventually reaching the airport. and anyone who's used the subway would have to agree its efficient, clean and cheap.
wikipedia has a good map of the projected subway system between now and 2020:
Shenzhen Metro
scroll down about halfway for the maps.
| thefuzz wrote: |
| -- Rent. If you want to live in a decent apartment in a decent location it will be expensive. If you don't care where you live or how old the apartment block is...you can get away with paying less. |
if you go out nanshan way, rent is not too bad, clean one bedroom apartments for about RMB1200-1500. living out here isnt good if you're working in futian or luo hu, but decent apartments are available in some districts of the city and people should keep that in mind when they're job hunting (don't take a job on the other side of town from where you plan to live).
| thefuzz wrote: |
| - Safety. Lots of my students always say that Shenzhen is not safe (and I'm not talking about pickpockets...lots of harder crimes happen on a regular basis). They say to stay away from the Futian and Luohu areas after dark...Nanshan and Shekou seem to be better. Why? People come to Shenzhen with big dreams...but if their dreams don't happen some will turn to a life of crime. |
i've had warnings myself (not just in shenzhen but everywhere i've been in china), but these have to be taken with a grain of salt. i've had friends in shenzhen and guangzhou tell me its not safe to travel on the bus between the two cities. they sometimes want to accompany me to the toilet in the bus station just to make sure i'm ok. IMO chinese people are real worry warts and are often overly cautious about things we take for granted (like going out alone or doing something alone).
if you're looking for the seedier side of life in shenzhen, then you'll find it in the centre - luo hu and futian - these are the older, dirtier business districts of shenzhen, the core of the city. most people who live there can probably point out the places with bad reputations - places to avoid.
on the other hand, nanshan and shekou are a lot better, because they're newer suburbs of the city. and like most cities, the suburbs are almost always safer and cleaner than the city centre. |
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thefuzz
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Subway in Shenzhen efficient?
One train every 5 minutes. This is not efficient. More lines by 2011? That's been the party line now since like 2002 when they started building the thing. Do you actually think it's gonna happen? Clean? Sure, cleaner than the buses, but the smell inside is the same...of course the metro company is not at fault...people here generally don't like taking showers I think (or perhaps it has something to do with the high water cost...who knows?).
Anyway, the above post is insightful (there are always people who either love or hate a place and it's good to see both sides)...you should really try getting a job working for the Shenzhen city propaganda department and help make the city a more harmonious place for everyone...local and foreigner alike! If I knew nothing of Shenzhen and read you post I'd think it could be the greatest city on the planet...like NYC or LA or Tokyo.
I'm off to sit on my balcony and have a cigarette...while enjoying yet another gray sky day in this wonderful city we call Shenzhen... |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| One train every 5 minutes. This is not efficient. |
Not that I'm a train expert - but I would think just on safety grounds that 5 minutes seems a pretty sensible time to wait between trains - after all how much can you cut that waiting time down???????? But then I suppose if 2 or 3 minutes of your life are of such value  |
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thefuzz
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| kukiv wrote: |
| Quote: |
| One train every 5 minutes. This is not efficient. |
Not that I'm a train expert - but I would think just on safety grounds that 5 minutes seems a pretty sensible time to wait between trains - after all how much can you cut that waiting time down???????? But then I suppose if 2 or 3 minutes of your life are of such value |
Rush hour in Hong Kong: train every 1.5 minutes.
Rush hour in Shanghai: train every 2.5 minutes.
It's not so much a time saver...it just makes the trains less crowded. Sometimes there is not enough room for everyone to get on because the trains run every 5 minutes...so you've been waiting 5 and then you can't get on and have to wait another 5...
For me time is important...I mostly do private work in Shenzhen and travel a lot to and from clients/students so I have to watch my time and try not to arrive late for classes.
Sorry...not everyone has a cushy university gig, lives on campus and walks all of 5 minutes to class... |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:59 am Post subject: |
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one more time:
| thefuzz wrote: |
Subway in Shenzhen efficient?
One train every 5 minutes. This is not efficient. More lines by 2011? That's been the party line now since like 2002 when they started building the thing. Do you actually think it's gonna happen? |
it is happening. as we speak.
anyone who's in shenzhen right now cant miss the subway construction sites all over the place surrounded with signs indicating which metro stop is about to appear in that spot. i can see the still-under-construction Da Xin station (one of the next ones to open) about 300m from my balcony. three stations just opened up in the past few months, the ones added on right after Shi jie zhi chuang.
| thefuzz wrote: |
| Clean? Sure, cleaner than the buses, but the smell inside is the same...of course the metro company is not at fault...people here generally don't like taking showers I think (or perhaps it has something to do with the high water cost...who knows?). |
sounds as if your issue is more with the people riding the subway than the actual subway and how its managed.
| thefuzz wrote: |
| Anyway, the above post is insightful (there are always people who either love or hate a place and it's good to see both sides)...you should really try getting a job working for the Shenzhen city propaganda department and help make the city a more harmonious place for everyone...local and foreigner alike! If I knew nothing of Shenzhen and read you post I'd think it could be the greatest city on the planet...like NYC or LA or Tokyo. |
well maybe there's a future for me outside of esl in this city then... i'll look into it 
there's no doubt i think shenzhen is a good place to live. i never claimed its tokyo or NY, its got its good and bad like any place on this planet. but many of the negative issues you claim exist in this city (dirty migrant workers, dirt in general, crime etc) also exist in other cities including shanghai (the one you claim as your personal favourite).
probably the biggest downside to shenzhen is that its so young as a city that there's not much to see and it doesnt have any "soul." its just another planned city that people flock to for work/trade/development. but that's precisely why it was conceived in the first place.
| thefuzz wrote: |
| I'm off to sit on my balcony and have a cigarette...while enjoying yet another gray sky day in this wonderful city we call Shenzhen... |
dont let that smoking darken the sky any more than it already is over there
Last edited by The Ever-changing Cleric on Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| For me time is important...I mostly do private work in Shenzhen and travel a lot to and from clients/students so I have to watch my time and try not to arrive late for classes |
A good warning to all of those who think that the private free-lancing game is an easy money-making gig - lots of travel and wasted time between work.
But for most normal FT's - 5 minutes between trains - wont be a very decisive factor in deciding to condemn a city as crap  |
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thefuzz
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| kukiv wrote: |
| Quote: |
| For me time is important...I mostly do private work in Shenzhen and travel a lot to and from clients/students so I have to watch my time and try not to arrive late for classes |
A good warning to all of those who think that the private free-lancing game is an easy money-making gig - lots of travel and wasted time between work.
But for most normal FT's - 5 minutes between trains - wont be a very decisive factor in deciding to condemn a city as crap |
The way my schedule is set-up I have NO wasted time...I just need to move smoothly from place to place which is harder to do in Shenzhen than Shanghai (where I did the same kind of work). I myself would never go back to teaching in one place...I work MUCH less right now and make MORE money...why change?
Nope, the subway issue is one of many things I don't like about Shenzhen...not the ONLY one...but that is just personal opinion so take it with with a grain of salt... |
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forwantofabetterusername
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't disagree with the fuzz on Shenzhen. Improvements on extending the subway lines will certainly help. I found I much prefered smaller cities; more managable cities to get around, cheaper / better food, cheaper / better flats, cleaner air, more pleasant easy-going locals, cities with character. I'm more a fan of Hangzhou, Suzhou and Nanjing. I was also told a lot about crime in Shenzhen, but, luckily, wasn't victim of any. I like to wander around cities, to get to know them, but Shenzhen, with its several centres and traffic galore, didn't do it for me. If you like shopping, and have plenty to spend, then that's something you can do there. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| i've been in china for 6 years now, lived in the north/central and southwest china for two years, and have now lived in guangdong for the past four years (one year in shenzhen, three years just outside the city). |
Can you give me an idea of the earning potential in Guangdong and Shenzhen?
How much can one get for a job in a primary school or elementary school? How much can one earn with a side job? |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| i've been in china for 6 years now, lived in the north/central and southwest china for two years, and have now lived in guangdong for the past four years (one year in shenzhen, three years just outside the city). |
Can you give me an idea of the earning potential in Guangdong and Shenzhen? |
the earning potential in guangdong is pretty high. there are factories/companies all over the place that occasionally look for a foreign teacher. i got a call from a toy factory in a smaller city in guangdong a few years ago but passed that on to a colleague since i was busy (he ended up getting 240/hr for that one). had another offer from Lenovo to teach english in their Shenzhen HQ but I was doing something else at the time and never took that one either (my GF used to work at Lenovo so her former colleagues asked her to ask me).
part-time tutoring of younger students is popular here. i never actively go looking for outside work but some opportunities still came my way regardless. i imagine if i actually did network myself better i'd have had plenty more chances to earn money. personally i hate part time tutoring. i did it in the past before i came to guangdong and i wasted more time going from one job to the next than they were worth.
the opportunities are many - how much can you make? that part is up to you and your negotiating skills. but 150-250 per hour seems to be the going rate for anything to do with a company.
a lot of these part time job offers come from someone who knows someone who knows you, which is typical. if you plan on coming to shenzhen then i suggest you join one of those social networking sites listed on another thread to make a few connections beforehand. shenzhenstuff.com is a good one.
| JZer wrote: |
| How much can one get for a job in a primary school or elementary school? How much can one earn with a side job? |
dont really know about that since i'd never work in a primary/elementary school myself. those jobs exist but i don't know anything about them. |
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