Job Discussion Forums

lydiasarah · Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 12

I'll start by saying that I take the signing of a contract very seriously, and I am not the type to pull a runner or fail to uphold my end of the bargain when it comes to teaching. A couple months ago I accepted a position at a University. The contract terms seemed pretty good, and the location I was told I'd be living seemed great as well. I searched all over the web for info on the particular school before signing, and didn't find a whole lot. I weighed my options and decided to go ahead and sign. I got my Z visa and am set to leave in a couple of weeks. Today I'm doing a quick search to see if any more info has popped up, and I find three separate individuals giving very strong warnings against this particular school. They even named the contact I've been talking with who, it turns out, is a recruiter and not from the school itself like I was told. He has lied to me about the living conditions and the location. Now I'm trying to figure out what to do.

Should I confront this recruiter and call him out on what he's been telling me? Is there any way to cancel a contract once the Z visa has been issued? Can I get another job in China on the same Z visa, or will I have to get another one?

I appreciate all the help and advice I can get!

LanGuTou · Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Posts: 621 Location: Shandong

I know that there are a few people who contribute to this forum with strong views pertaining to upholding contracts.

However, as far as I am concerned, when a individual or a group of people use lies, coercion and deceit to close out a contract, it should be null and void. I have been through the provisions of China contract law and such a caveat exists there too.

Of course, it depends on the extent of the deception. When a person claims to be an employee of a university but is, in fact, a recruiter, that sounds like pretty big deception to me. I also believe that the school should hold some accountability for the recruiter(s) that they entrust.

Therefore, in my personal opinion, you should be able to walk away from this contract and take another job. Whether it would be as simple as that in a country like China is another thing altogether!

lydiasarah · Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 12

I appreciate the advice. I'm not sure how to proceed at this point. I'm pretty sure I can find other positions, but I don't know if I'll need to get a new Z-visa before leaving at the end of the month.

Halapo · Joined: 05 Sep 2009 Posts: 140 Location: Jiangsu, China

Your Z visa is tied to your school ( its hard to sum up, but they are your guarantor. Without them, nobody is responsible for you. The Chinese Government like to know who is responsible for us foreigners ).

You could confront the recruiter, and if you do it from afar I think you might have better odds. I would also try to get in direct contact with the disgruntles, and see if they are just big babies, or legit? Maybe one thing soured the whole thing for them. Maybe it wont be a problem for you.

Still, try to get some improvements agreed on, in clear terms, and signed before you get there. Once you are there, the recruiter stops caring.

And dont expect them to stick to any new deal anyway.

The good thing is they cant blacklist you ( well they could, but I would guess it takes more effort then they are willing to put in ).

Or go in expecting to fight a war, do your time and learn from it.

There is no way they are going to refund you any of your expenses so far. If you have the plan ticket, find out about refunding it while doing all this too.

Being honest and forthright wont get you anything here. "Look out for number one" is your motto here ( and everywhere in China ).

And if you do back out of the deal, you will need a new visa.

The best thing you could do: Try find the disgruntle teachers, get the schools FOA from them, make a deal with him(the school's FOA). If he is willing to do the leg work to get you a new z-visa, your pretty much good to go. He is going to be mad at the recruiter already for costing him face ( and his school's ). Plus he is in a better position to recover anything he has paid to the recruiter then you will be.

LanGuTou · Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Posts: 621 Location: Shandong

The Ever-changing Cleric · Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 1523

lydiasarah · Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 12

I've been doing the ESL thing for a few years now, so I've learned to keep my cool and not over-exaggerate issues that come up along the way. I've also learned that a year is a long time to be stuck in a bad work situation. I figure it's be better to do something about it now before I leave as opposed to when I get there. Here are the complaints I was referring to:

http://www.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/review/index.pl?read=27845
http://www.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/review/index.pl?read=28124
http://www.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/review/index.pl?read=27860

These are the main three. While the individuals seem a bit harsh, they do provide very concrete reasons why they were unhappy. All of that information goes against what I was told by the recruiter who I though was part of the school. He did tell us that the school was in Wuhan proper, which apparently it is not.

LanGuTou · Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Posts: 621 Location: Shandong

If the same recruiter told you exactly the same misinformation given by one of those teachers on that forum, you can be pretty damn sure that the grievance is genuine. It should be quite a warning flag.

I think you should move on!

kukiv · Joined: 13 Dec 2009 Posts: 328

My take on those warnings are - if you're not scared of endless early on-campus evenings - surrounded by students - then go for it!!!!

It looks like a job for someone who's sole purpose is to teach English - doesn't seem to be the kind of employment that allows an ordinary FT to enjoy much of a life outside work.

There are lots of jobs like this in China, with new development causing the spread of urban areas that sees many campuses being built miles outside major city areas. Recruiters will often say the locations are within a city - which may technically be correct - but for any practical purpose of having easy access for an evening out in the town - is a joke.
For some FT's the sheer boredom and isolation of their work can be a real problem - the world of a life spent mainly on a Chinese campus can, after a few months, deteriorate into a grey concrete deadsville.

Mr. Ed · Joined: 11 Feb 2010 Posts: 46

I have read the three links provided.

By Chinese standards the complaints are petty because they can and are identical to complaints lodged against 3rd and 4th tier Junior and Vocational Colleges all over China.
At one 3rd tier college it took 14 months to replace burned out light bulbs on five flights of stairs used every night by 350 students.

This is not a University job. This is a College job. More specifically it is a 4th tier college job. 4th tier Colleges are run by 4th tier administrators and taught by 4th class teachers. Such 4th tier administrators usually utilize the services of 4th class recruiters.

The students are the lowest possible and will be more like 7th graders in the States. It will be like teaching Junior High school in the USA.

I suggest that you send the recruiter the three links and ask for an explanation.

lydiasarah · Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 12

Thanks for the positive advice and understanding. My significant other who also signed the contract is out of the country until tomorrow, so I can't make any decisions until I fill him in. I'm guessing we'll confront this Kevin guy with the links and then look elsewhere for other positions. Hopefully we can find something quickly, as we have a flight booked! I've already been sending out our resumes all day, and we don't mind having to go to HK for a visa change if need be. Thanks again for the advice!

The Ever-changing Cleric · Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 1523

chinese concept of time and space is much different than ours.

whenever anyone in china tells you something is located in XX city, they often mean its within the boundaries of the county, not the city proper. this applies to the location of most schools now being built outside city limits. same when you ask someone where their hometown is - they might tell you they're from the same city in which you're speaking to them but you're confused when they tell you that it takes them 4 hours to get home on the bus. they really meant they live in the same county not within city limits.

i worked at one school that was a 45 minute bus ride out of town. i had a choice of living at the campus hotel or at the school apartments in town. initially i chose the hotel, but after one month of boredom moved into town. that problem was easily rectified by making the request.

LanGuTou · Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Posts: 621 Location: Shandong

lydiasarah · Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 12

Mister Al · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 840 Location: In there

I don't like the sound of this place at all, unless you are trying to hide from the world.

Entering on a Z visa...........the problem is that any new employer needs to get you the Foreign Expert Certificate (FEC) before you can apply for Resident Permit. If they can do that then you will be fine as the Z visa is just a visa that allows you to enter China to work, but only last for 30 days. I can't see a problem exiting on the same visa if you needed to though I'm not 100% sure, but you may have to explain to customs that the job wasn't what you expected and you didn't sign a contract, blah blah.

It's a complicated situation so what would I do? You seem ready for the big adventure and you have flight tickets so just go for it. As you suggest, look for another job quickly and if you can't find one then just come over and go somewhere you fancy and keep searching for work. You'll have at least 30 days. You may also be able to change to a tourist visa for a further 30 days and repeat once more.

Tell the recruiter at the last moment that you have changed your mind.

You say your husband also has a tourist visa. Don't quite understand the 'also'. You can only have one visa at any given time, I believe.