Job Discussion Forums

[prairiemaker]

My wife and I have been looking at Thailand as or next ESL designation and for numerous reasons it has a strong appeal to us. My question is I have started talking with a few universities that have offered me positions, but they keep telling me the rank is �contract teacher�, not Instructor, lecturer, assistant professor or visiting professor. They will let me teach at the university, design my own classes and basically do the same thing I am know doing with a much more balanced lifestyle. But so far, every thing is ranked �teacher�. Is this the norm in Thailand? My concern is it will hurt my CV and future job opportunities if I take a non faculty post. I want to continue teaching at university level, as I really enjoy it. I do not mind being a lecturer or instructor, but what is up with this contract teacher rank?
At present I am working in South Korea on faculty as a professor of English. I have four years ESL experience with three as a professor. I have an MA in writing and I have published quite a bit of non academic writing and some academic writing. I also have been a guest lecturer at several universities on the power of writing for social and environmental change. My references are strong and show a good deal of curriculum design.

Any thoughts from professional�s in the field what the contract teacher rank will do to future hiring, and are their any universities in Thailand offering faculty post for someone with my limited experiance?

[roguegrafix]

As far as I am aware, a "contract teacher" is the normal contract offered to teach at unis in Thailand. The contract is generally for one year and it is usually automatically renewed (unless the uni decides to get rid of you). I know of only 2 people who have a 2 year contract. I have friends at other unis with PhDs who supervise master and PhD students. I don't know what their contract status is but it would be on a renewable contract. Their pay is certainly higher than the 27 odd thousand that is the norm with government unis but then again so are their qualifications.

The normal contract to teach English requires a bachelor degree only. So me holding a Masters degree does not entitle me to any increase in status or pay. It does allow me to teach master degree students if such courses get up and going (whereas a normal bachelor holder would not be allowed).

Teaching status in Thailand is purely for permanent employees of the Thai government (in government unis). Foreigners are generally not permanent staff and probably will never ever be. You might be able to renegotiate your status at the end of your first contract but I wouldn't hold my breath. I wouldn't worry about your CV--write what you did at the uni and any serious employers would understand this more than a mere term of "teacher".

Uni jobs in Thailand are well sought after--not so for the money or the status, but for the conditions which are generally a lot more flexible than other jobs. Good luck. There are others on this forum who know more than me who might add their views on the topic.

[Pauleddy]

Rogue is right.

There is rarely any form of tenure, and NONE at the gvment unis.

Nobody gets 'even' an Asst Prof title. Academic rank is only for Thais, who remain in the system for years.

Accordingly, there is a lot of dead wood. I know 60 year old/rich Thai ladies who are "professors", although they couldn't distinguish a modal from a meteorite. I also know pompous 25-y-o gucci-clad Thai girls and boys with PhDs from Upper Idaho Comm College who cannot use apostrophes.

We are all on contracts. Until you are known, you will be on a one year contract. After about 3-4 years, if you are trusted, you may be granted a 2 yr renewable one. Thais are far too afraid to give any farang a permanent contract. You will always be hired help.

One of the finest teachers I know is an American who has worked in BKK, at a top uni, for 26 years, and is married to a Thai professor. By rights, she would be a full professor by now--but no way, Jose.

Also--get used to the fact that you are never consulted about decisions or strategy. You are only asked to edit or correct stuff, or do recordings, or check through written exams. Some unis have started to have a senior farang on interview boards (because some Thais get fooled by clever pedos and all sorts of riff raff), but you will never be asked to join in at senior meetings, even if you are a Harvard Full Professor with 30 years in Educational management. They are too paranoid that you may be right: there is a dread of 'losing face' and being 'shown up'. The chips on shoulders here are huge.

What is worse is the enormous amount of backbiting, 30 year grudges and faction-ism among/between the Thais themselves. I have been assured that I 'don't know the half of it' when I make small comments, or try to understand the schisms.

If you mention synergy, teamwork, 'collegiateness', flexibility, inclusiveness, inspired leadership, humility, mutual appreciation etc...these are all great unknowns. It doesn't happen.

You get used to it, strut your edu-tainment stuff and then head for the bar (or try not to!)

Good Luck!

Sad Eddy

(Afterthought/edit:

There is a lot of rubbish and pomposity involved in academic rank. Everywhere. Many years ago, I met a pretty hopeless guy who had been granted a "visiting prof" title at the University of Uttar Pradesh or somewhere. He had conducted some half-baked seminars or similar and had some connections. Problem was, he became even more pompous and risible as a "prof".

In Thailand, a rank is often tied in with other duties/service time/creeping, and is almost automatic, also because senior level/timeserved salaries and pensions depend on it. For example, at my previous uni, the elderly teacher who ordered envelopes and allocated office furniture was made an Assistant Prof. I know for sure that the rank was not granted for research or academic prowess.

As a basic instructor (with MA and other postgrad stuff), I have designed courses, mentored MA students and just about everything else. There are very good instructors with BAs and lousy ones with PhDs.

AFAIK there are no universal standards adhered to in order to be granted rank--unless you are "known" and "published" and at Harvard or Oxford, which is when it may be more meaningful. If I suddenly became full Professor of TEFL at the University of Mongolia, I hope that I wouldn't change much, although I might have more papers to shuffle.

If the OP is worried about his CV erosion, or that he will not get "respect", then he may have second thoughts about coming here. As stated, he WILL be cannon fodder, aka contract teacher. Academic life and rigour is a pile of #*&^ here anyway, for the most part).

[prairiemaker]

Thank you both for posting. This is good information and I appreciate the time both of you took to write it. Some of this could be written for Korea as well. I agree there is a �lot of rubbish and pomposity� in academic rank. The best professor I ever had refused to be called anything but his first name. I have tried to live up to his example. I do not allow my students to call me professor, or even teacher. They call me by my first name. I have based my whole curriculum on equality and student feed back.

Here in Korea, the professors at my university refuse to even speak to new instructors. Every new semester I find the new instructors sitting in their break room, looking like hoot owls because they have no idea where anything is at. I have went as far as to even talk to the dean about how they are treated, but nothing changed. Now I go find them and give them the dime tour myself.

In the USA this is not so different either. Some of the sickest, most arrogant people I have ever met were PhD holders. Some instructors I had were the best teachers, more student focused and truly caring. One instructor I had is directly responsible for helping me become a writer. She helped me win a scholarship for my writing, but only after she had me redraft it 13 times! She spent hours of her own time with me.

I do worry about being a contract teacher verses a professor for future hiring though, especially if I ever go back to the USA. I have already been offered a university post back home that I am certain I would not have if it were not for the rank. However, if it is this way all the way across Thailand it seems I could just say this and it would not be too detrimental.

Part of me wants out of academia with all its games though. I am at a point I just want to slow down, be near nature and teach around 12 hours a week and have time to write and paint. Hopefully if I can sell a few more paintings and publish a book now and then, I could give up ever being a professor again, and just teach a few hours a week because I love to teach.

[Gypsy King]

Teaching at universities in Thailand is more refreshing than teaching children. You will probably get paid less but it is worth the experience. Just don't expect any promotions based on merit as Thais canot bear the thought of a farang doing a better job them as a teacher as they will lose face. TIT