Job Discussion Forums

[Slinder]

Does anyone know if the American English Center is a good place to work?

[ecocks]

Look in Russia and CIS countries for a recent thread on them. We have requested it be moved to here by the moderators but hasn't happened yet.

[Slinder]

Ahhhhh yes! If anyone else is curious about the school, all necessary information can be found here http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=46040&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 .

If anyone else has additional information or personal experiences with this school, please share.

[Old Lion]

Dont bother..
Pay
pay is 1,000 a month...but after you pay for a flat in kiev "for a fair western style flat not 1 hour to work is 400-500 USD a month PLUS bills" in Kiev you'll be left with 400-600 a month take home..Same as a garbabge man now makes in Kiev.
In Dnipro or Khakov rent is a bit less..but more less your left with $600 a month cash.Pretty much same as most people make now in khakov..you wont be rich and will hardly have cash left to go out often.
CoWorkers-Americans
Most are weird men or young kids.about 70% are under 23...just want a good time..totally clueless..nice kids, but hardly teachers..more less they have a US passport and some time and got a job.
I would pass on this school...if I were you...if pay was more "like 1,500 a month or 1,000 a month with apt paid..it would be more attractive...you'll bairly get by!

[Slinder]

Thanks for the info. Do you know any other institutions that pay better, yet do not require certification/provide training?

[canucktechie]

In Ukraine? Get serious.

[ecocks]

the point of not requiring a certification does probably make them attractive to teachers who fit that age/sex thing and don't want to bother with training (see Old Lion's post). The other operations that pay more would require TEFL or higher.

[reddragon09]

Just a quick post to clear up the "mystery" surrounding AEC, since some of the information that has been given in recent posts has been bizarre.

I arrived in Ukraine to teach at AEC in the beginning of August 2007, fresh out of college, with no prior teaching experience of any kind. I'm now leaving the school after 6 months of teaching, possibly coming back at some point, and with no bad feelings to speak of.


---------TEACHERS/CERTIFICATION/PROGRAM--------------
The reason the school doesn't require certification is that you won't really be teaching grammar. The students have Ukrainian teachers to teach them grammar, and your job as an American teacher is to reinforce the grammar they've learned by facilitating speaking on their part. The people best qualified for this sort of job are not necessarily those with lots of teaching experience, but rather people who can talk easily with others, draw them out, and get everyone involved speaking.

Most of the teachers are in their mid 20s. If you don't like that, maybe it's not the right school for you. In terms of teacher quality, it's extremely hit or miss. Think of it like drafting a professional athlete. You have some factors you can look at to predict if someone will be successful, but after that it's a crapshoot. So in practice, 60% of the teachers turn out to be decent (i.e. don't get in the way of their students learning), 20% turn out to be superstars, and 20% are just complete disasters who need to be fired. Usually those people quit within 1-2 months.

The school has their own materials that you work from, which can get a bit boring. But the thing is, the program works extremely well, especially for relatively motivated students. People learn to speak well here, and the highest compliment I can pay to the school is that if I were a Ukrainian in Kyiv, I would study there. It's really cheap ($170/semester at the Kreshchatik location, about $150/semester at the others, for a 7-week semester), and the program is strict enough that your teacher can't screw it up too badly.

--------MONEY-----------------------
Now for money. You get paid $11/hour. You work 26ish hours a week, more if you want, potentially less if you want, although that can be hard to finagle. You work from 4-10pm (sometimes 6-10pm) on Mon-Thur, and then 4-8 hours on Sunday, which can be between 11am and 8pm. You also currently get a $5 bonus at the end of the semester for each student enrolled with you, which in practice means about an extra $75/month. There are also student retention bonuses, which are not guaranteed. This semester, I worked 26 hours/week, and made $1200/month.

Can you live on that? Short answer no problem at all, long answer is that you need to have some money saved before coming. You will not receive your first paycheck until you've been in the country for 7 weeks. You will receive $200 during your training, and you won't have to pay rent your first 2 weeks. In practice, this means that you will blow through about $1000-1500 on plane fare+living+apartment before you get your first paycheck. After that period is over, you will start to save between $200 and $600/month, depending on bonuses and your lifestyle. Oh wait, forgot about the visa, see below.

GOOD THINGS THAT THE SCHOOL DOES REGARDING MONEY:
They pay your deposit upon moving into an apartment (i.e. the last month's rent), which can be a killer cost. They also (at the present time) subsidize 2/3 bedroom apartments that cost more than $350/person. Me and my roommate are currently paying $700/month combined for an $850 apt.

BAD THINGS THEY DO WITH MONEY:
The visa situation - the school does not pay for your visa, they just give you an invitation letter. I cannot recommend strongly enough that you get the visa BEFORE COMING TO UKRAINE!!! Otherwise you will get financially reamed taking a trip to Poland/Hungary/Czech Republic, just at the time when you would've finally started making money.

---------------RUSSIAN-------------------
Now for the worst thing about the school (in my opinion, others will disagree): Their Russian education offered to teachers is utter poop. It's disorganized, poorly taught, and the school is extremely stingy with it, trying to cut corners at every possible opportunity. A couple of self-motivated learners have made some progress with it, and then there are a few lucky people like myself who knew the language before coming here. Another guy has recently enrolled at a local university studying Russian, which is a good option, but really tiring when combined with teaching.

If you're in my boat, i.e. someone who studied Russian in college (not as a major, just some language courses), and you want to come to Kyiv to improve your Russian, it's not a bad move. The problem is that the school will provide you with NOTHING in the way of resources or opportunities for improving your knowledge of the language. You will have a lot of free time, so you can find some ways to learn, just know in advance that it will all have to be done on your own.

NOTE TO ANY AEC staff who may read this: The above paragraphs are not meant to be a passive-aggressive request on my part. Rather, I want to give prospective teachers an accurate view of what life will be like. If the situation in regards to Russian instruction here changes, I will happily post the joyful news in this forum.

Why do I mention Russian so much? Obviously AEC is a language school, not a Russian program, and they never make any promises to the contrary. But a lot of the teachers come here with the hope of learning the language, when they could be making a lot more money in other countries. Given that, it would be nice to see more support in this area.

Also:
Jonathan Pernick is NOT the owner of AEC in any way, shape, or form. He is an American in charge of recruiting American teachers (among other responsibilities). AEC is owned by a Ukrainian woman in her mid to late 30s.

---RANDOM----
If you teach for AEC, you will have a LOT of free time. If you are non self-motivated/easily bored, you should probably not come.
--------------------------------

That's it for now, it should be abundantly obvious to anyone involved with AEC who I am, but I hope I was reasonably fair. As I said, my experience with the school has been generally positive. I'm leaving the AEC in a week to do different stuff for a bit, maybe do some more lucrative things financially in Kyiv, but I won't rule out returning there in the future.

If you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them in this thread, or you can PM me. If any facts that I've given are wrong, I'm happy to change them.
--TG

[ecocks]

and you seem to present a balanced point of view. I had understood a couple of years ago that Jon Pernick was more like a General Manager but lately it sounded like he had become the owner. So, thanks for the correction/clarification.

What things did you find "bizarre"? Everything I read is either peoples' opinions or consistent with the street talk and nothing else seems to qualify as bizarre. The bit about young people? The lecher syndrome?

As mentioned earlier, they have some eccentricities but, if you don't want to work there, don't. He appears to do nothing illegal (by Ukrainian standards) and, frankly, I like that they only hire Americans. If he hired Brits, Aussies, Kiwis or Canucks it wouldn't make sense to call it the AMERICAN English Center now would it?

The wages appear to be average when the housing allowance is taken into consideration. Salaries for full-timers seem to have risen in the last 6-8 months to around $1400-1500/month.

[ecocks]

Slinder, did you come to Ukraine or still thinking it over?

I am surprised we aren't getting more action. Lots of teachers here but no one seems to feel like getting the thread section tooled up.

[Slinder]

I was considering heading over there but heard some very negative things about Ukraine from various (non-eslcafe.com sources). Additionally, I heard that if one has no knowledge of Russian, that they are basically screwed. I'm still open minded about heading over there but I need to hear the positives!

[Old Lion]

OK,
I taught in UA. YES if you dont know russian you are set back,...be prepared to be overcharged at cafes, and TAXIS ..yes taxis are the worse!! if you get a taxi get one with a meter gage or they will over price you. Not knowing Russian sets one back alot..i speak fair Russia..know around 700 words and can place then in sentences, but it set me back..i could only imagine one who knows only basic..you cant really travel and you pretty much need baby sitted to go anywhere beyound school-home-stores.
As for the AEC, I'd say pass on UA...apt here are more they they are in the USA..and for an old Soviet craphole. In kiev for a flat one could rent in downtown Atlanta for 450 USd a month with nice repair..Kiev a old roach infested old 50 year old ugly flat. will run 400-700 USD..why I dont know when the ave monthly wage is 600USD a month in Kiev..
You'll be left with about 500-700 spending bucks a month if you room up with someone...
Also apt they charge 500 a month rent are considered good..your views include overflowing dumpsters, drunks sorting through them,all grey..ugly apts all around..a lift-elevator like something out of a horror flick...neighbors playing load misc and constantly hearing car alarms going off outside...Your apt will have 1 bedroom, with old ugly furnature the owner used 15 years ago...the bathroom will have some old tub and sink..with ugly brown tile...the kitchen has some load 30 year old fridge..and older stove...If this apt was in Atlanta it would rent for 50 bucks a month..Kiev-Dnipro-Kharkov...around 300-800 a month..go figure...

[Slinder]

Ugh... That's terrible. I can rent a room in New Orleans for $250 a month. One of the positives of the AEC though is a shared apartment @ $350 a month, thus leaving one $650 a month for expenses with only a 26 hour work week...

[Atlantean]

Old Lion is scaring the crap out of me. I am planning on getting a CELTA in Kiev this summer, and hope to live there. He makes it sound like the worst place on earth. I was there for 10 days, looked at a few apartments and most of them were acceptable to me. I just loved Kiev, so it makes me wonder if I am missing something. I suspect that this post paints a negative picture of the place, as I live in Atlanta, and the only place where a $450 month apartment might be available is in the slum, or way outside the city. In my area, they go for 700-900 for a one bedroom.
Regardless, I would like to hear from anyone who has anything nice to say about Kiev. Making this move is nerve wracking enough. I need to hear something positive.

[biffinbridge]

Cheer up...you'll be flat broke but the women are stunning. Shame you won't be able to buy them a drink.
$1,000/ month in Central Europe...get real. Any capital city in any country is expensive. Any city in Europe is more expensive than any city in the States. That isn't a job, that's a sick joke. You'll have a disposable income of 300 UK sterling, which is what you'd get on benefits there. Some things in Kiev will cost you a lot more than they do in the States. (Clothes, electronic goods, running a mobile, a decent beer in an ex-pat bar etc etc).
You've only got yourself to blame.