Job Discussion Forums

[clifton10]

Hi, I am a 49 year old USAer who's been teaching here in China for about six months, with experience in teaching general English and English for Information Technology. Anyway, I am looking to leave China this and Indonesia is one of my options. I am looking at EF Swara and EF Central Jakarta; so tell anyone tell me which of the two are better to work with? I have some experience with young learners, but I am hoping to teach adults; prepare students for the IELTS/TOEFL and, hopefully, coporate English. With the latter, I have quite a bit of experience in the hotel/restaurant field. Any comments would be great. Thanks!

[markustm]

I guess you could call me an old "Indonesian hand," but Indonesia has definitely changed these last few years, and after looking at various China jobsites- seems to offer much better opportunities than Indonesia.

First of all, compared to Indonesia- most Schools and Universities will give you a free Apartment, with internet and often hot water. In Indonesia, to get your own accommodation means a seizable investment. (except a KOST).

You cannot legally work in Indonesia without a KITAS, and with a KITAS cannot work outside your contract. In China, some employers seem to state that you can work outside your contract.

Since new taxation laws have been implemented, teachers in Indonesia have to aware that they are responsible to make sure their taxes are paid. Generally this is done, but some Employers may place the emphasis on tax on you.

Hiring Costs- Indonesia has Asia's highest Work permit costs, which make it hard for many potential employers to hire you. Indonesian work permits cost between 2.000 to 3.000 US$ a year!.

The range of jobs is huge in China, there are thousands of vacancies for teachers from Universities to teaching Children. Indonesia is fast becoming the place only to teach kids.

I agree Indonesia does have advantages, the climate is certainly one, also the nightlife, shopping costs and low cost of living outside exclusive Real Estates and expat "ghettos."

But China seems to offer more opportunities and flexibility in work, and I heard the nightlife seem is getting as good as Indonesia's. And the high cost of hiring expatriates, plus the new taxation laws are making it more difficult to raise salaries with living costs.

Indonesia in 2010 will suit the Teacher who works in an International School, or perhaps in a National Standard School. But most language mills pay less than you can earn in China, and offer inferior accommodation.

Everywhere changes. I read that teachers in India earn more than 10jt a month with accommodation now, and can only surmise there are better options outside Indonesia, nowadays.

[Chris Patton]

Hi Clifton:

Appropriate disclosure up front, I am the DoS of EF BSD-Tangerang, a Swara group centre.

I spent more than three years working in China before coming here, so hopefully I can give you a balanced comparison.

One of the things I particularly enjoy about working here compared to my China jobs is that the organisation seems to be much better. This is obviously a cultural issue, and people who expect things to be organised the same way as western countries are bound to be disappointed, but there certainly seems to be much more of a sense of forward planning here. In China it always seemed that things were planned about 10 minutes ahead (I'm only being slightly sarcastic here) while in Indonesia the schools, and indeed other businesses seem to have a good system of longer term planning. That isn't to say that surprises never happen, but not as frequently.

I also find that there is a higher standard of English here than in Chinese cities. Certainly in Jakarta and the suburbs we have very few students joinign us at the introductory levels, and quite a lot staying around and getting into upper intermediate and advanced levels. For me that makes the teaching much more interesting and enjoyable.

I can't speak for the central Jakarta group, but with the Swara group we do have a lot of variety in the students we teach. A large part of our market is comprised of young learners, but we also do a fair amount of exam prep, adult classes and corporate classes. Feel free to PM me for more info, or to contact our HR people.

As well as contacting us, you should spend some time looking at other language institutions or perhaps NatPlus or International schools (perhaps someone from that sector can give the OP some advice here?).

Take your time, do your research and I'm sure you'll have no problem finding a suitable position.

Good luck!

[HCV]

Hi!
Like Chris, I have been in China before coming to Indonesia. I spent 3 years in China, and am now in my third year in Indonesia.
It is true that housing conditions in China are usually better, and I did take a pay-cut when I came to Indonesia, but living here more than makes up for it. In my experience things here are a lot more organized, and the community I live in is much friendlier and supportive than it was the case in China.
Traveling here is also more convenient, and I have seen much more of Indonesia than I ever did of China.
Good Luck!

[malu]

I had one year in China and five years in Indonesia. There is simply no comparison. The quality of life here is so much better than in China. I earned good money in China but had nothing to spend it on - never have I watched so many DVDs on my own at home. In Indonesia there is also open access to the www, satellite TV, 2 credible English language daily papers and western films at every cinema.

[wailing_imam]

Having lived in the tropics for some time now, I would have to say that the climate in China (east coast) is generally better. Four seasons are a hell of a lot more fun than one.

China is a much more stimulating and challenging environment to live in, and one that can be very mentally draining. Indonesia is a much easier place in general (although depends where you are - Banjarmasin, Medan, Pekanbaru etc would be pretty dull). Indonesia is much more westernised and easier to watch movies, find decent bars and even hald decent bookshops (Jakarta).

Chinese girls are much prettier!

[Henry_Cowell]

[markustm]

I guess living in a country depends much on your own perceptions, and needs. But the original post was more about job opportunities than lifestyles itself.

I have lived and worked in many places in Indonesia- not just Jakarta. And each region, and area in Indonesia is different.

The Jakarta lifestyle to many expats is a modern, westernized, semi US style suburban lifestyle, in a city where more often than not- money talks.

If you compare Jakarta to the US, and like the semi-suburban shopping Mall, *beep* western lifestyle, and you earn more money than most language mills offer then jakarta is great.

Outside Jakarta, your lifestyle can differ from City to City or region to region. But no place is the same. You still have the Malls, MacDonalds and Starbucks- but you also have lower living costs, and more chance to go "local."

The most frustrating part of Jakarta is the traffic, and the slow internet connections. Much of Indonesia is "wired" now, with free wi fi cafes all over the Country, and much faster internet speeds than in Jakarta.

Also if you work in a high paying, responsible job, it would be more difficult in Jakarta to get out and about, because of the traffic, then a smaller city. And if you are stuck in a suburb away from the center of the city- transport costs can be higher then paying for a cheap hotel room in the city. Chances are you would stay at home watching DVDs or simply end up in another Mall, during weekdays.

This is an option many teachers go for, because often salaries are comparable to Jakarta, and living is much more easier. Often with the chance of travelling away on weekends.

I have no experience of working in China, nor India but can see that their are much more opportunities in both these Countries in terms of the choice of work you can do, and the accommodation they offer.

[malu]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

There are many more jobs in China because it is a much bigger country in terms of population. In addition, jobs in China are hard to fill. In China it isn't bandwidth that limits your internet experience but rather the Great Firewall.

Try it and see.