Job Discussion Forums

Littlebird · Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 82 Location: UK

Has anyone heard of Deborah International KindergartenSchool ? How hard is it to get work in HK without teaching experience or qualifications ? All I have is a degree.

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

I've never heard of the place, but it would be surprising if I had....there are loads of places like that here. Without TEFL quals, but with a degree, you can still find work but it won't be very well paid. It's worth doing the CELTA...you'll get your money back.

Freddie_Unbelievable · Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 288

Why don't you just try getting a qualification first. It might make you a better teacher and will get you a job so you can get that experience.

But beware littlebird Hong Kong is for the tough.

You might want to start in China or South Korea first.

Littlebird · Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 82 Location: UK

Why do I always feel patronised by you Freddie_Unbelievable ?

I don't want to do a CELTA because apart from the massive cost it will take a year at my local college and TEFL courses don't seem to be worth the paper they are written on. I've already done so many crap courses I don't want to do anymore.

Freddie_Unbelievable · Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 288

"All I have is a degree."...

You neglected to mention all of your "crap courses."

Do you see courses as "crap?"

Perhaps you do need more professional development!

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

I agree that courses are often crap, but the paper that proves you have them is, unfortunately, very useful. BTW...the CELTA only takes 4 weeks.

Littlebird · Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 82 Location: UK

I take it that you have a really good CELTA or even a DELTA than Freddie ?

The CELTAs I have come accross take 6 months to a year and cost a fortune !! Where can you do it in 4 weeks ?! Don't you have to do a lot of essays and learn grammar - a tall order when we are not taught grammar in British schools. I looked at an online course and it gave some sample questions and I was horrified that I did not know what they were talking about !

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

Littlebird, you are definitely getting your courses mixed up. I have no idea which one you are talking about, but it sounds like it might be the DELTA, generally referred to as the "Dip". The Dip is quite advanced and is for experienced teachers. The course which most TEFLers take as the "entry qualification" and which is globally recognised is the 4-week certificate, of which there are 2 main options - the CELTA or TESOL certificate. They are both pretty much the same. With this and a degree, the world of TEFLing awaits you. For discussion as to where and how much etc. go to Dave's teacher training forum.

mcNug · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 83 Location: HK

Deborah International Playschool has several playschools around Hong Kong. There should be some posts about it in the job information journals here at ESL cafe. I've seen them advertise in the South China Morning Post more than anyone else, which to me might seem like a warning sign for high turnover.

growler · Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 17

The salary at Deb's is low and working hours long in comparison to other international kindergartens or even local school. However, people with just a degree can sure give it a try. You can't expect to get fair pay as a qualified teacher, can you? Many treat the place as a stepping stone or a foot in the door which explains its high staff turnover.

Littlebird · Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 82 Location: UK

I don't see why a 4 week TEFL course should make much difference to pay actually especially as some people pay for a certificate on the net a PGCE or CELTA and loads of experience yes but TEFL no. I suppose some people set great store by these courses though.

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

Littlebird wrote:

"I suppose some people set great store by these courses though."

In a word, "yes"!!! C'est la vie!

Scott in HK · Joined: 11 Jan 2003 Posts: 148

Littlebird...

What do you think a CELTA is...it is a four week course about teaching english as second/foreign language. It might be more well known...and some may argue better...but, concept-wise, it is esstentially the same as all other 4 week courses...

in comparison to online courses...the 4 week courses are much better and that is why employers want to have one...

and neither compares to a tefl dip..which is usually a one year course...and the best one for teaching esl/efl...

Freddie_Unbelievable · Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 288

Marco,

In a word, "yes"!!! C'est la vie!

My thoughs exactly.

Littlebird,

Study and you may, with effort and determination, one day grow up to be a big bird!

Littlebird · Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 82 Location: UK

'One day I'll grow up to be a big bird 'Why does correspondence with you always end up with insults, Freddie ? I can't afford to do a TEFL or a CELTA. My local CELTA course is part time spread over 6 months and costs �900 too long and too expensive !! I don't want to do a course which is basic common sense. If the course taught grammar though that would be worth while. How can English speaking people teach grammar ? We aren't taught it at school, there is no need. I can correct other people's English but if asked why it is wrong I won't be able to say. Presumably they will want me to say something like 'you need to use the conditional tense here not the imperfect ' and I won't have a clue. That's why I don't rate these courses because they don't teach grammar. Another thing there are so many people on this forum that can't spell, punctuate and continually use bad grammar but still profess to being successful at teaching English AND probably have a TEFL qualification !! Beats me.