Job Discussion Forums

[Michael In Tainan]

I have read through many of the posts here and obtained a lot of information. However, I would like to know more about residing in the land of of pyramids. Currently I am living in Taiwan and have been doing so for the past 3 years. I am starting to get that relocation itch. I plan on going back to the states and do my student teaching in order to complete my teaching certification and also get a MA in either Education or TESL. I also want to obtain a CELTA certificate. I have always wanted to check out Egypt and teaching has made it that much more possible.
BTW I am 29 single and male. By the time I actually make my move I will be 30-31 and hopefully still single
So, I would like to know:
Cost of living? Granted, the COL will vary from city to city. But, what is it on average? ie, rent, food, transportation, entertainment.I know that Egypt is not a "rich" country, but I assume that teaching english pays better than most jobs filled by locals. Here in Taiwan on average you make about $1,500us a month working 20 hours a week. You can get by on about 500-700us a month. Don't get me wrong, my motivation for wanting to work/live in Egypt is not money.... but it makes things easier

What city/cities are the best? I live in the old capitol of Taiwan in the south of the island. It is a smaller city and the expat community is close and cool(aside from a few oddballs). I enjoy the slower pace, lower cost of living, and friendliness of the small city. But i like to hang out in the big ones once in a while.

Jobs? What is the market like? What is a decent/average monthly wage at a private language school(in Taiwan they are called "cram schools" or bushibans)? From what I have read in the posts, the private language schools are similar to those in Taiwan: shady bosses who hire anyone that is "white" and just walks in the door.(that is generally speaking). What opportunities would I have with 4yrs ESL experience, a teaching certificate, MA in TESL or Education, and a CELTA? Is it better to line up gigs in schools and universities before arriving or try my luck when arriving. How about recruiters?

The people? Chinese are cool but because Taiwan is an island, most people here have limited or no personal experience with "out siders". For any of you who have lived in Asia you know what it means to be a "monkey". For those who do not, basically most Chinese do not honestly like "outsiders" and treat us like circus animals. But to be fair, there are "some" really cool and sincere people here. Are Egyptians like that? Are they more welcoming to "outsiders"?

Women? I am refering to local women. Asia can spoil a single western male. What is the general attitude about "race mixing"? Is it cool, or will some girl's brothers beat my a** for looking at her?

Night life? How is it? I dj at a few disco pubs here, would there be oppurtunity for me to do that in Egypt?

A question about degrees and certificates. What are the most useful and advantageous certificates? Which would be better: a MA in TESL or Education?

Any and all input would be much appreciated. The more details the better. I have found that a lot of the info given in the posts are sometimes too general.

Peace,
Michael

[sarina]

Hi, I live and teach in Egypt and will write you a longer reply later - I have to go out quickly now. I just wanted to tell you quickly though that it is almost impossible for you to date here - the concept just does not exist - girls really only date after they are engaged (with their fiance) and this goes for Muslims and probably double for Coptics. Most guys who stay here teaching are gay - that's a whole other story - a big closet life going on here/although technically illegal), and most straight single guys become very lonely here and leave after a year. I'll write more about more general info. later - but just thought I should just disabuse you of the notion of "mixed dating" with Egyptian girls. The other way round is more common - they figure foreign girls are already permissive , but the daughters here are fairly cloistered (even if they seem liberal in dress and sneak out - the family will find out preety soon) and fundamentalism increasing. It also is legally impossible for a Muslim girl to marry a non-Muslim man, however the other way is possible

[veiledsentiments]

Michael

Sarina is right. If you are thinking of moving to the Middle East to sample the local talent, it is most definitely NOT the same as the Far East. The only market that you will have is the other expat women. If there is any 'racial mixing,' it doesn't involve the local women - in any of the Middle East.

The Egyptians are very used to foreigners, as tourists have been swarming the sites as far back as the ancient Greeks. I lived there for a number of years and I find the culture to be friendly and welcoming. They will happily rip you off until you learn the system, but such is the way of the world.

I doubt that there would be much opening for being a DJ, as the unemployment rate is huge, and there are plenty of locals to do the few such jobs that may be available.

I can't tell you much about what you would earn in language school jobs, but I can tell that the market is much smaller than in Taiwan. That is quite a wealthy country, whereas Egypt is mostly very poor. There is no equivalent to the 'cram schools.' In relation to the wage of the average local, English teaching does pay well, but the costs for a foreigner are significantly more expensive too. For instance, there is a foreigner rental rate for a flat and a foreigner taxi fare.

It sounds as though you should visit Egypt before you decide to go there and live. One option that you may want to look into is the Fellowship program at the American University in Cairo. Applications are probably closed for this coming September, but you may want to think about Sept 2005. It takes two years, you teach about 7 hours a week, and end up with a free MA in TEFL - a recognized American degree. All it costs you is books and luxuries. A small stipend pretty much covers a spartan lifestyle for the two years. Check out their website.

VS

[Michael In Tainan]

Thank you very much for the info. I need a little more..... What is the average salary for the various ESL jobs? Also, what is the average cost of living i.e., rent,transpo, food, and entertainment.

Sounds like sampling the local talent is out of question. Strange though, there are not even any "foreigner groupies"? How are the foreign women? Do not get me wrong, this is not the main/only reason why I want to travel/live in other countries. But, being a single man, it is important.

Thanks

[veiledsentiments]

Michael

Foreigner groupies?? You mean that in the Far East TEFL teachers are like rock stars?? who knew??

There would most definitely be no such thing in the Middle East involving local women. If you do a little reading on the culture, you will find that for the Muslim girl in a traditional conservative family, even a rumor that she had been seen talking to a man can have severe repercussions - even perhaps her death. Female virtue is not a game here. Cairo is a bit more laid back, but things are not as free as they sometimes seem.

There are a lot of expats in Egypt - especially Cairo, not to mention tourists passing through. So, it is not as if you would be forced to become a monk. Though there could be a supply and demand problem now and again. One point of interest to you is that there are expats from all over the world. Many Europeans are drawn to Cairo too. I found living there to be great fun and met so many interesting people.

As I said, I don't know about salaries, but feel safe to say that they are low. Teachers who are there long term eventually add private students, which can pay quite well. I fell into a nice little private lesson gold mine there and doubled my salary my last year.

The cost of living depends on life style. You can rent a furnished flat for from probably $200 and up. They will definitely NOT be luxurious --- no hot water in the kitchen kind of places. Taxis are affordable once you learn the system. Food and entertainment costs depend on your lifestyle. If you live on local stuff it is cheap, if you want imported foods they are VERY expensive. That package of Oreos would be a splurge item.

VS

[Michael In Tainan]

veiledsentiments
Well......actaully...... "rock star" is the term most commonly used to describe the status of foreigners living in Taiwan. For some odd reason, westerners are treated just like that. It has its pros and cons. Getting into clubs for free and having people buy you drinks is always cool. For the men, having women practically throw themselves at you does wonders to the ego.(sad to say, western women do not experience the same thing). Having people constanty wave and say hello can make one feel somewhat special. On the flipside, having people constantly stare and shout 'how are you' after you walked 15 feet past them(too shy to actually talk because their english is not that good and they will "loose face" if you talk to them and they cannot reply) gets very annoying. And it is never cool to have bitter local gangsters give you bad looks and ask you "why did you *choose* to come to Taiwan?" because the girls are digging you over them. But all that is a completely different subject all together.

My next question is: As far as teaching abroad in the "good" gigs, what do you think would be better.... a MA in Education or a MA in TESL. I plan to go back to school and complete my teaching credential. I also want a MA, just not sure which one to get. I also am thinking about getting a CELTA(in Cairo). My long term goal is to eventually return to the states and teach social science.

[veiledsentiments]

Hi Michael,

Well, I never knew that I was such a symbol of female pulchritude until I walked daily through Tahrir Square in the center of Cairo. In the Middle East, it is we females who get the attention - way too much attention. The fact that I was old enough to be their mother didn't seem to inhibit them. Rather quickly one learns to ignore them.

As to the MA question - overseas an MA in TEFL/TESL or Applied Linguistics would be best, but I suspect that for any improved future in the US, one in education would be better. Once you have an MA, the CELTA will add little to your employability and nothing to your pay check. I think it is a great thing for the beginning teacher because it does teach you to teach, but do you really need it at this point?

VS

[dtomchek]

Michael:

I am a certified Social Science Teacher (in California) and have an MA in Education. Currently, I am on the JET program in Japan but also taught for 2 years in Poland.

I think the MA in Education would be much more useful in the States if that is your ultimate goal. Most districts will pay extra for it. An MA in TEFL might not work in the States.

Also, teaching Social Science in the States is a rather difficult job to get into. Now Special Ed on the other hand, that was an easy job to get (even without a certificate as all you have to do is be in an actual Special Ed program to qualify for a waver). Unless you have an "in" with some district, most Social Science Teachers I know work in Special Ed for a few years and then "transfer" to more mainstream classes.

Any other info on the subject by others would be appreciated but hope this helps. A Rock Star, uh? Certainly not that way here in rural Japan. Maybe I picked the wrong country!!!

[juliagirl]

Good day all... I have another Egypt question.... not really a quality of life question, but a quality of entertainment. Since I will be teaching math, science and language arts I have to do lesson plans etc and don't think I will have as much freedom as some people here get to experience like traveling so often. What kind of 'entertainment' is there in Alexandria after working hours (say between 3-7) for a foreign female? Are there language schools where I can learn Arabic ( can anyone recommend one), cheap dvd copies to be bought, etc.? I don't like to shop for things I can't carry with me. What is the expat population like? Will it be easy to find friends to talk and gossip with??

[justcolleen]

[veiledsentiments]

justcolleen... you forgot the two Easters to go with the two Christmases and two New Years and two Eids. When the Eids were landing in second semester, it was difficult to get any momentum in the classroom between all the holidays!! I flew to Jordan twice that semester (back when the flight was less than US$150.)

As to evenings, because it is a generally warm to hot climate, it runs on a different time schedule. For instance, people don't take off work to go see the doctor... they have most of their hours in the evenings. (I don't think doctors ever see their families. Perhaps they make an appointment...)

Don't be totally paranoid about being out on your own in the evening. I wouldn't go to a hotel bar or club or even restaurant on my own in the evening, but I had no qualms about meeting friends at these types of places or their flats and taking taxis back and forth on my own. That said, I wasn't one who was out at all hours... and I don't believe that I was even in a taxi alone after midnight unless it was an arrival at the airport. If you have done any travel, you should be able to pick up on the comfort level... but don't get in a taxi alone if you are drunk or scantily clad. (anywhere in the world...)

True about the kids/students of all ages being over tired. There are no schedules at home. The kids sleep when and if they want to... as you will find out from your neighbors.

VS

[juliagirl]

Thanks you guys..... I really appreciate this information..... One last question, do Egyptian men tend to date foreign females? I usually find that this is not the case in Asia, but wow, what a change should it be true....

[veiledsentiments]

[justcolleen]

Pay close attention to VS' words because they are quite true. As she said, there are many traps and unless you understand the culture you won't know what they are.

Until then, the hard, fast rule is that Egyptians don't "date" and if an Egyptian man tries to "date" you, let him be on his way because the chances are you don't want him, his less than stellar moral compass, or his motives.

[juliagirl]

Hear ya loud n clear.... Good thing that isn't a high priority.

Cheers yet again,

JSM