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JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

Has anyone read any research about forgetting you native language that you can recommend to me?

I am interested in this subject.

As English teachers, it would be impossible for us to forget English entirely but I am guessing that some of us that have been living abroad for a long time have limited use of English in certain matters.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject:

Hmmm. I think that if you search under 'popular myths in EFL for the credulous' you may come across something. No adults forget their own language, unless they were so stupid to begin with that they could also forget how to cycle a bike. Some people may affect to have forgotten, in much the same way they affect annoying accents... I think they believe it gives them some sort of mystique. It doesn't.

johnslat · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject:

Dear Sashadroogie,

You're wrong. My original language was Martian, but I've been here so long I can't remember a word of it anymore.

Regards,
John (Carter) of Mars

Sashadroogie · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:09 pm Post subject:

Dear Johnslat

Oh no! Are you one of those people which an annoying blend of Martian and Earthing accent? Thank heavens we can only type on the forum!

johnslat · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:26 pm Post subject:

Dear Sashadroogie,

Well, after you reach a certain age, you NEVER lose the accent. By the way, I lied; I do remember one word:

calot - what you Earthlings would call a dog (though with ten legs.)

Regards,
John

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

I believe you cannot forget to understand it but I think their were some Dutch sailors that were captured by the Chinese and could not speak Dutch anymore when they were set free.

I am wondering if that is true and also whether after enough years of living in a foreign country that one cannot lose one's ability to comprehen a foreign language as well if it has really been acquired. Of course one can forget how to speak a foreign language but I wonder whether after 10 or 20 years living in a foreign country whether one would continue to understand that language until death if they stopped using it on a regular basis.

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

Well, after you've been in China awhile you'll start talking to yourself alot.

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

But I often talk to myself in Mandarin. I used to talk to myself in German.

GambateBingBangBOOM · Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan

Even if it were possible to actually forget your language (it's more like you put a psychological block on it until the L2 becomes the language you turn to most, but that is in no way shape or form the same thing as actually 'forgetting' it and having to go back to false beginner classes- so those Dutch who could understand it, but couldn't speak it- they were so used to punishment for using their own language that they had a psychological block to using it), then it would only be possible if you never actually used your first language. We teach our first language and so are connected to both our language and our culture more closely than other immigrants who may have made a complete break from anything that has to do with their language and culture. Unless you live in the jungle somewhere or something, then there are always big Hollywood movies around with subtitles. You can't really say the same of immigrants from the Middle East or Africa (with the possible exception of South Africa).

The idea that you somehow lose your own language/culture is occasionally used in Japan as an excuse to not hire people who have been overseas because the higher-ups on the hierarchy (old people who have never left the country) worry about someone rocking the boat. There are more than a few papers on the subject (kikokushijo- boys and girls who have returned from being overseas).

Nozka · Joined: 26 Feb 2008 Posts: 50 Location: "The City of Joy"

Neuroscientists tell us that the synapses in our brains become hardwired through repeated firing, and our language becomes pretty hardwired, but at what age? I think we might loose more advanced vocabulary if we learned it later in life and then did not use it, but most of our L1 will stay with us if we make it to adulthood.

I'm not so sure about children though. I know a few young adults who emigrated at an early age (between 6 and 12). They would have an extremely difficult time being called a native speaker in their home countries anymore.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

What about the children of some of my friends?
For example: one mother is Bulgarian, and the father is Norweigan. They live in the Netherlands and speak English at home.
The children speak functional Bulgarian and Norweigan, spending entire summers and winter holidays in one or the other country. They go to school in Dutch. And speak English most often at home.

What's their 'native' language?

Will they forget it?

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:50 am Post subject:

GambateBingBangBOOM · Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan

markcmc · Joined: 18 Jan 2010 Posts: 262 Location: Taiwan

Whether people really forget their own language I don't know. It sounds possible under certain extreme circumstances.

What is possible is that if you stay away from your country for a long time, new words will appear that didn't exist when you lived there. In this way your knowledge of your own language may diminish.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

People who go to French Immersion in Canada go to school in French, but they aren't "French Canadians" and they have a "French Immersion" accent that is immediately apparent to Canadian French L1 speakers. Many of them refuse to use French after they graduate and say things like "I understand it but can't speak it". But because these kids live in the Netherlands, they very likely don't use Dutch just at school. I think it would be more likely that they use it most of the time when they aren't at home.

There is another difference between the French immersion schools and the Dutch ones I'm referring to: the expat kids are a minority, and the Dutch they are immersed in is real-life Dutch, not 'Dutch immersion Dutch.' And, yes, they use it with their friends constantly outslide school as well.

"Functional" Bulgarian and Norwegian implies 'not entirely fluent', so neither of those languages are native (the first language of the parents doesn't matter if it's not the one the children grow up using). Without use, they very well could forget those languages.

I agree. Though it's unlikely in this particular case: both families are very active in the lives of the children, and so the languages are used quite often - if it's not during an actual visit, it's phone and skype contact on a very regular basis. Lucky kids - I expect they'll retain their ability to use both languages to a functional level in the long term.

That leaves English. If they use English most of the time at home, then in all likelihood, if they have to choose one language as an L1, then it would be English.

Actually, I think it will be a dual Dutch-English choice. I doubt they would opt for English only. In fact, they went through a stage where they pushed their parents to learn Dutch fluently, because they 'preferred' it.