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NYCESOL11211
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 75
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 Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: Authentic Text in Saudi |
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I will be teaching in KSA this fall, and it will be my first experience in the region. I wonder what teaching in KSA will really be like. Exactly what subject matter is "off limits" in the classrooms?
I'm particularly concerned about using modern fiction as authentic learning materials. This would probably only apply to more advanced students, but I would love to be able to teach with fiction written by the likes of Ha Jin, Annix Proulx (not Brokeback Mountain!), Sam Shepard, and so on. Would all fiction that has even the briefest mention of sexuality be unacceptable? What fiction do you teach from, without any controversy? |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Dear NYCESOL11211,
Sexuality is OFF LIMITS - as are many other are many other areas. You may be very hard-pressed to find much, if any, "modern fiction" that could be used in a Saudi classroom.
Regards,
John |
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NYCESOL11211
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear NYCESOL11211,
Sexuality is OFF LIMITS - as are many other are many other areas. You may be very hard-pressed to find much, if any, "modern fiction" that could be used in a Saudi classroom.
Regards,
John |
If that's the case, pretty much all western fiction (all the way back to Homer) is eliminated. Am I missing something? How do you tell a human story without mention of this basic pillar of humanity? |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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OH GOD! This again?!? Keep only to puritanical texts! No SEX, RELIGION, DATING, INDEPENDENT THOUGHT, POLITICS, etc.,etc.,etc...
Purge your mind of EVERYTHING you've been taught to teach...and by GOD, do not let your supervisor see that you have any students asleep in class...never mind the fact that they went to bed at 3 a.m. and got up at 6!
NCTBA |
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NYCESOL11211
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe I'm going at this the wrong way. I will not be trying to challenge what is and isn't acceptable during my stay in KSA.
Let me try again: what authentic learning materials are acceptable in Saudi? Specifics would be helpful. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If that's the case, pretty much all western fiction (all the way back to Homer) is eliminated. Am I missing something? How do you tell a human story without mention of this basic pillar of humanity? |
Maybe I'm a bit overly cautious, but I'd hesitate to use overtly sexual texts as ESL teaching materials anywhere in the world, including my own country. It's accepted wisdom in the teaching world that you choose subjects and texts which are fairly banal and unlikely to offend. Besides, it's hard to see why you would need to rely on fiction in a Saudi ESL class, since most students are learning the language for practical work or education-related reasons.
| Quote: |
| Let me try again: what authentic learning materials are acceptable in Saudi? Specifics would be helpful. |
Anything which avoids discussion of the three no's: Sex, religion and politics. To be honest, I haven't found it too difficult to find appropriate materials to use in class, but then as I've said, I tend to think it best to avoid potentially contentious subjects anywhere. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Dear NYCESOL11211.
"If that's the case, pretty much all western fiction (all the way back to Homer) is eliminated. "
That IS the case and yes - pretty much all western fiction IS eliminated
"Am I missing something?"
Yes - experience in Saudi. On the bright side, someday, you'll look back on your post here and chuckle ruefully.
"How do you tell a human story without mention of this basic pillar of humanity?"
You don't - and the only pillars in Saudi are the Five Pillars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Pillars_of_Islam
Regards,
John |
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Cuffs
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Today I had to teach 25 Saudi youths a reading passage describing the impregnation of a mouse with the fertilized egg of an elephant. Multiply confusion by bewilderment and you're not even close to describing the look on their faces.
This is the closest I've come to teaching overtly sexual texts in Saudi - all the same, it was quite sexy.
Tough day. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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I can recall one time on TV when the mating of spiders was censored. And once, when the students asked if I could bring my dog to school, the director asked me what sex it was. When it told him it was a female, he told me, "No."
Regards,
John |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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I'm actually impressed that you had a dog in KSA, given the general negative prejudices about dogs there  .
I'm NOT going to speculate about what's specifically offensive about a female dog as opposed to a male. I've currently got Saudi students of both genders and I don't want to catch myself contemplating anything dodgy during class |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, and, by the way, 'our' Saudi students are here in the Netherlands where taboo topics are rampant on the streets and in real life - but we don't bring 'em up in the classroom, nor do we use materials that challenge beliefs and opinions that are more-than-ultra-Victorian.
They've got enough challenges living here and getting their English up to snuff to enter medical school here without our further stressing them culturally.
In other words - we wouldn't use current (or past) English literature with Saudi students even here in the Netherlands. Why? Whatever purpose it would serve wouldn't be so important. We have acceptable alternatives. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Dear spiral78.
I actually took the dog over in 1980 - and there's a long tale (so to speak) attached to that: getting her into the country, keeping her there for three years, and getting her out again.
Yup, a real dog's tale.
Regards,
John |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Mine's Canadian, and has so far lived in the Czech Rep, Netherlands, and has had visits to the US and a work assigment in Moscow.
It's a dog's life:)
I'd be actually interested in the Tale of the Doggess in Saudi, but I guess that would be for another forum, where seriously off-topic topics are tolerated.
Pardon me, OP  |
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PoS2010
Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 21
Location: rock n hard place
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
Mine's Canadian, and has so far lived in the Czech Rep, Netherlands, and has had visits to the US and a work assigment in Moscow.
It's a dog's life:)
I'd be actually interested in the Tale of the Doggess in Saudi, but I guess that would be for another forum, where seriously off-topic topics are tolerated.
Pardon me, OP |
Bitchin aside
I use whatever I want including stories of religious intolerance and girlfriend tales. The catch might be that usually my views co-incide with theirs and where they clash i let them know saudi style that the Teacher is the fountain of KNowledge that they shall drink from. |
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7atetan
Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 93
Location: Not in the Mediterranean Sea
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| Oh, and, by the way, 'our' Saudi students are here in the Netherlands where taboo topics are rampant on the streets and in real life - but we don't bring 'em up in the classroom, nor do we use materials that challenge beliefs and opinions that are more-than-ultra-Victorian.[...] |
Yes, because "god"-forbid they should get exposed to anything other than a "holy" book. From the day they're born they're indoctrinated, being told "This is the truth, learn in by heart, do not deviate from it, do not question it, do not modify it." It's done with everything from the Quran to literature to geography to cookery.
And then there's astonishment that they're clueless about basic common knowledge, cannot make simple inferences and have literally zero lateral/critical thinking skills.
I never shirked topics that are emotional or contentious while working in Saudi. I never introduced risque items for discussion, not out of any cultural pandering, but because I myself wouldn't discuss them with anyone except, perhaps, a handful of closest friends.
Even if a subject is controversial, so long as it is not illegal, it lends itself well to fostering the aptitudes Saudis (and Gulf Arabs more broadly) sorely lack. Students should be encouraged to challenge themselves; not to change their beliefs (welcome though as that would be in many cases), but try to arrive at and appreciate the alternative point(s) of view, i.e. why might someone see things differently?
Talking about soccer stars and automobiles only has so much, er, mileage. It may be fine for lower levels and for Windsor summer English course type of thing, but not for academic preparatory courses.
Despite what you are told by some here, don't feel like you constantly have to walk on eggshells. If you comport yourself professionally, do nothing illegal or otherwise stupid, you will be O.K. |
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