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Seditious
Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 26
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 Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:12 am Post subject: Al- Rowad, Riyadh |
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| Anyone have information on Al Rowad in Riyadh? Also, what is the rental situation in Riyadh (looking for single or two room apt)? |
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TheGood1
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:04 am Post subject: |
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Good Luck  |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| TheGood1 wrote: |
| Good Luck |
Was that supposed to be helpful? Do you mean that the employer is bad? Or that housing is hard to find? Or that Riyadh is bad?
If you have any information on either of his questions, perhaps you could share it?
VS |
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Seditious
Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:30 am Post subject: |
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This is one of the places I interviewed with recently. Ultimately I ended up rejecting the offer.
Story time
When I sent my CV to them I was contacted by the head of their science department. We did the back and forth with me asking questions about the position/school and him finding out more about my classroom management practices and teaching strategies. I was then quoted an amount (the offer from my other post) that the position would offer. When I indicated that I was willing to continue with the application I was told I'd be contacted by the deputy principal.
I was then contacted by the assistant deputy principal (ADP)who setup and conducted the interview. The interview was done by phone. At the end of a short 20min interview, I was told that the job was mine, that I'd be teaching secondary school students, and I'd be contacted by the deputy principal with the official details of the offer.
I was contacted again by the assistant deputy principal who informed me of the details of the package:
Following our discussion, and having discussed the interview and available positions with my colleagues, we would like to offer you the position of grade 5/6 science teacher for the coming academic year. Should positions in the higher grade science become available, you will be given priority.
The package that we can offer at the moment, is as follows:
1) Monthly salary: SR 7,500
2) Annual housing allowance: SR 18,000 (for a couple with/without children); Half the allowance for a single person
3) Health insurance for you and your family who are under your sponsorship in the kingdom.
4) Flight tickets for your wife and you, as well as two child tickets.
Let us know your thoughts.
Many regards
Needless to say I sent in my counteroffer:
I am excited about the job offer you extended and look forward to accepting it. I feel I will make a significant contribution to Al Rowad International Schools both in the short and long term. The terms you described in the offer are acceptable with a few minor changes. Please see the attached word document. Also, I am open to discussing this further with ------ when he arrives in Florida. Thank you again and I look forward to hearing from you.
and was met with:
Thankyou for your interests. Unfortunately, the school will not be able to meet the demands you have made. If you are willing to accept the package as it stands, then please confirm by responding to this email.
Regards,
ADP
I regretfully informed him that I would not be able to accept the position at this time and would look forward to working with them in the future when they were able to table a more robust offer.
The School-
From what I was told and deduced from the interview with the assistant deputy principal-
1) The school has a small budget
2) Teachers don't have their own classrooms (they walk from class to class)
3) The school is renting the building and needs to clear out by 2PM (this part confused me but never got a chance to clarify if I heard correctly)
4) There is no in class technology (the ADP was very excited that I had my own LCD projector and would be bringing it!).
5) There is a discipline problem with the older kids (ADP spent much of the interview on this part).
6) Doesn't have a functional science Lab (was told it was too small for an entire class to work in by ADP)
7) The school needs more K-5 teachers than secondary
8 ) Mostly non white staff
THE Staff
1) Other teachers are slackers IMHO (ADP said most of them either lecture the entire period or hand out worksheets and seem surprised when I outlined a typical school week for me)
2) The head of the science department seemed like a straight forward guy (was very honest with what he knew and said when he needed to ask someone else)
3) ADP does the typical Indian thing and lies to avoid conflict (saying I would be given a position as a secondary teacher then failing to deliver). Low balling the offer while claiming it was the best they could do when I was already told that it wasn't. Became defensive after my counteroffer and misconstrued it as demands.
4) As the deputy principal never bothered to contact me... he's at least good at delegating to his staff. |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Have you considered the King Faisal School? The two main apologist have apparently moved on to (I'm sure) much greener pastures. Maybe KFS can offer you a decent package...minus the lil' demons, of course.
NCTBA
P.s.- I just realized that the lil' ones that tormented the staff when I was there are probably having their (literally) lil' princes "learning" there by now.  ...  ... |
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Seditious
Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:44 am Post subject: |
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I think I'm going to follow the advice I got on the other post and go ahead and complete my field experience in the US so that I can apply for a standard teaching certificate. I'll then be in a better position for the following year. DFW job fair is May 3, hopefully I'll pick up a position there.
As much as working overseas for a few years is appealing, I also don't want ruin myself by going into a bad situation (one where I won't at least have the benefit of friends and family to ease the stress).
Keep up the good work NCTBA and VS (yea yea it's pity love, I can't stand to see so many of these new guys piling on you's), hopefully some of the people who've been attacking you guys recently will go back and take a holistic approach when trying to understand your posts. |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| Seditious wrote: |
Keep up the good work NCTBA and VS (yea yea it's pity love, I can't stand to see so many of these new guys piling on you's), hopefully some of the people who've been attacking you guys recently will go back and take a holistic approach when trying to understand your posts. |
Thanks for the nice words Sed. I can assure you that VS and I are a big girl and boy. We call 'em as we see 'em. Hopefully we get thru to thinkers such as yerself. One thing that I notice is that beyond having no substance to the attacks, the detractors quickly stick their tails between their legs and scuttle off. Quite different from the claim to fame that they might accuse me of, methinks that it is they themselves that are trying to gain the limelight.
I simply report and opine. Much as I did as a columnist for my college newspaper...
NCTBA |
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7atetan
Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 93
Location: Not in the Mediterranean Sea
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Seditious wrote: |
[...]The package that we can offer at the moment, is as follows:
1) Monthly salary: SR 7,500
2) Annual housing allowance: SR 18,000 (for a couple with/without children); Half the allowance for a single person[...] |
Oh boy, did you dodge a bullet there! 9,000 big ones per annum would barely get you a bunk in a laborers' dormitory in Al-Batha. Don't know if you're married but even with 18k, you'd need to spend at least half your monthly salary to find a semi-decent place to stay (NOT a compound, where accommodations go for 30k and above).
I also note there is no transportation, either arranged or given an allowance for, meaning that would be another bite out of your monthly ass.
Lastly, the salary itself is shamfully (shamelessly!) low. I was offered that to teach ENGLISH, PART-time, THREE hours per DAY, a couple of years ago.
Even in Bahrain, by far the lowest-paying GCC state, the conditions you list would be considered derisory; for Saudi it is nothing short of slavery! |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Salary and conditions here might be aimed at Asian teachers rather that European or North American. |
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7atetan
Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 93
Location: Not in the Mediterranean Sea
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| Salary and conditions here might be aimed at Asian teachers rather that European or North American. |
If that is the case, they're getting short-changed, too, because even in Bahrain a Subcontinental or Filipino teacher will get vetter terms than those described... - and that's without the oppressive Saudi environment. |
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Seditious
Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| Salary and conditions here might be aimed at Asian teachers rather that European or North American. |
This, I suspect, is the real reason for that abysmal offer. From pictures posted on their website, it looks like some of the staff is at least of Arab/Egyptian origin. And nearly all have Arabic sounding names.
| 7atetan wrote: |
| Don't know if you're married but even with 18k, you'd need to spend at least half your monthly salary to find a semi-decent place to stay (NOT a compound, where accommodations go for 30k and above). |
Yup, it seems though if you are Indian or Pakistani, that the Hara district (?) offers the lowest rent. Of course they only want Indians or Pakistanis there. I got this from expatriates.com, so not sure how reliable the info is. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Seditious wrote: |
| I think I'm going to follow the advice I got on the other post and go ahead and complete my field experience in the US so that I can apply for a standard teaching certificate. |
Great decision!! It will mean that you enter the market with full academic credentials. Then you can hit a job fair or two in the US and see what's out there. That first job might still be not exactly optimal, but moving up the ladder will be an option once you can add good experience to the cert/license.
Good Luck!
VS |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 2) Annual housing allowance: SR 18,000 (for a couple with/without children); Half the allowance for a single person |
That's ridiculous. While 18,000 can get you anything between a 2 br apartment in a posh area to a 3 br (maybe 4?) in a middle class area of Riyadh, what the hell is 9,000 supposed to get for anybody? 9,000 will get you nothing; the cheapest apartments are at least 12,000, and more likely around 15,000.
| Quote: |
| saying I would be given a position as a secondary teacher then failing to deliver |
This actually might have been in your favor (teaching younger kids). The older kids in such schools tend to be extremely hard to manage (as the ADP pointed out to you), and unless you have experience managing them, you would have a terrible time trying to teach them. |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Don't know if you're married but even with 18k, you'd need to spend at least half your monthly salary to find a semi-decent place to stay (NOT a compound, where accommodations go for 30k and above). |
1 + 1 = 11 going on in here.
You claim that with an 18,000 allowance, he would need to spend AT LEAST half his monthly salary to get a SEMI-decent place to stay, and it still wouldn't get him a place in a compound because in compounds the cheapest places are for 30,000. Let's see what your assertion gives us:
18,000 + 3,750(12) = 63,000
63,000 >>> 30,000, so it should net him a nice big place on a compound, and far more than a SEMI-decent place outside compounds. In fact, for 63,000 you can rent a 2-story detached villa, or a 2-3 br apartment on a compound. Fact is, your assertion was false. 18,000 is enough to get a semi- or otherwise decent place outside a compound. And to get onto a compound (assuming the 30,000 is correct), he just needs to spend a 1,000 out of his salary every month, which is not half his salary, but about an eighth.
| Quote: |
| If that is the case, they're getting short-changed, too, because even in Bahrain a Subcontinental or Filipino teacher will get vetter terms than those described... - and that's without the oppressive Saudi environment. |
Again, I don't know what planet/country you are talking about. Over the years, I have been offered science/math teacher posts in many many school in Jeddah. This includes Saudi private schools and international schools. In Saudi private schools, the salaries have ranged from 5,000 to 7,000. In Lebanese-run international schools, 4,500 to 6,000, and in Paki/Indian-run international schools 3,500 to 5,000.
So that 7,500 is relatively phenomenal.
************************************************************
| Quote: |
| I think I'm going to follow the advice I got on the other post and go ahead and complete my field experience in the US so that I can apply for a standard teaching certificate. |
That's the best thing you can do. Go get your teaching certification, and then apply to teach in one of the few British and American schools in Saudi Arabia. (or anywhere else in the world)
They offer proper salaries in Saudi and other Gulf countries (10,000-12,000 for newly qualified teachers; old timers get as much as 20,000), and have proper working conditions, standards, and school grounds.
Good luck!
P.S. I am not talking about schools which just have a Western curriculum, but also a Western administration. Most of the various international schools in Saudi have either the British or American curriculum, but are either Arab-managed, or South Asian-managed. |
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Seditious
Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| trapezius wrote: |
| This actually might have been in your favor (teaching younger kids). The older kids in such schools tend to be extremely hard to manage (as the ADP pointed out to you), and unless you have experience managing them, you would have a terrible time trying to teach them. |
I think the US public school system has permanently turned me off of teaching younger kids (7th graders tested and found to be reading at a 4th grade level!! Trying matching your vocabulary level to that and still teach effectively... it's no fun).
Not to mention, my teaching style tends to leave the wee ones in tears sometimes ( I know it's bad but after I lectured my 7th grade class for using my class computers to look at pornography while I was absent.... well lets just say the next period teacher wanted to know "WHAT THE HELL DID I DO TO THEM?"... She almost call in the principal on me!) . I expect my students to have high morals. I've earned quite a few nicknames from some of the parents: General, superman, terrorist, racist (there are many more good ones (my favorite being peanut butter and jelly teacher  ), as the bad one are usually from parents who tend to fear or have little control over their kids).
I've also taught one semester 6-9th grades. I found it much easier to have a conversation with the older kids without having to worry about feeling and hormones. Not to mention they actually get my jokes!
Then there is my need to stay active intellectually... |
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