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Drizzt
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 229
Location: Kyuushuu, Japan
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 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:37 am Post subject: How is an Ed.D. viewed in Japan (compared to Ph.D.) |
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Hi everyone,
I'm finishing up my master's this month in applied linguistics and have about 5 years experience teaching at the uni level. My wife and I plan to come to Japan for the long-term, hopefully getting on at a private university, but if not I'll take whatever I can get in the beginning.
I have considered starting a doctoral program in applied linguistics/TESOL within the next few years, and as probably many of you know, Temple University Japan has an Ed.D. program in TESOL. This program is appealing to me because they have weekend classes so I could still work a regular full-time job while working toward the degree. In addition, it seems to be the only doctoral program in TESOL/applied linguistics which is taught in English in Japan(if anyone knows of other doctoral programs that fit that description, I would sure like to know of it!).
My one reservation, however, is I have done a bit of digging around by asking faculty about Ed.D. programs, and it seems that the ones who have an Ed.D. claim its equivalent to the Ph.D., but those that have Ph.D. have all advised against it.
Furthermore, I've noticed that many of the uni job ads (such as in the JALT language teacher) will specify Ph.D. but say nothing of Ed.D. I certainly wouldn't want to spend all those extra years for a degree that isn't as competitive, so if anyone has some insights on how an Ed.D. is regarded in Japan or more specifically how an Ed.D. in TESOL from Temple would be viewed for the purposes of landing a uni position at a top or mid tier university in Japan, I would greatly appreciate it! |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:59 am Post subject: |
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I can't advise for or against either choice. I can tell you that uni work in Japan is highly competitive. Look at more ads, like on JRECIN, to see what employers are asking in various departments.
What are your long-term goals? Stay in Japan? Why choose only a private uni? Do you expect tenure? (Odds are you won't get it.)
With no experience teaching in Japan, a lot will depend on connections, publications, and language ability, no matter what degree you have. Expect 20-100 applicants for most positions. Jobs open around mid summer to fall for the following April start dates.
As for having weekends free, realize that you may have a Mon-Fri job, but entrance exams and other events may happen on weekends and require that you work then. |
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Drizzt
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 229
Location: Kyuushuu, Japan
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:23 am Post subject: |
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Hi Glenski,
| Quote: |
| What are your long-term goals? Stay in Japan? Why choose only a private uni? Do you expect tenure? (Odds are you won't get it.) |
We plan to stay in Japan for the long term. The reason I said private uni is because until I have some publications under my belt along with high level Japanese ability, and a doctoral degree, I know I have no shot at all for the national universities. I have found a number of tier 3 private unis where there requirements are lower, so I figure that might be a good starting point before I resign myself to working in a language school.
Actually, last year you suggested trying with Westgate as a way to get into the market initially, so I am following that advice for the fall semester before I apply at any uni jobs for the 2011 academic year.
Mainly though, I'm wondering if anyone has any comments specifically about the doctoral program at Temple, or if anyone knows of other TESOL/applied linguistics doctoral programs in Japan that are taught in English other than Temple. So far my online searches for other options have proven fruitless. |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:31 am Post subject: Re: How is an Ed.D. viewed in Japan (compared to Ph.D.) |
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| Drizzt wrote: |
| The ones who have an Ed.D. claim its equivalent to the Ph.D., but those that have Ph.D. have all advised against it. |
As I understand it, the Ed.D. is aimed at education professionals such as teachers, principals, or administrators. The PhD is more for education academics such as researchers or professors.
| Quote: |
| Furthermore, I've noticed that many of the uni job ads (such as in the JALT language teacher) will specify Ph.D. but say nothing of Ed.D. |
You might try contacting the heads of EFL departments at several universities and asking them if they consider the Ed.D. a competitive qualification.
Last edited by Vince on Wed May 12, 2010 1:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Drizzt
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 229
Location: Kyuushuu, Japan
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks Vince, that's a good idea. |
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Bread
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Drizzt wrote: |
| Thanks Vince, that's a good idea. |
If you do that, please post back with their responses. I'd be interested to see what they say. |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
As for having weekends free, realize that you may have a Mon-Fri job, but entrance exams and other events may happen on weekends and require that you work then. |
When I went to TUJ, the class meeting hours were Friday nights and Saturday late-ish afternoons. The hours are designed for working folk. Too bad they had to shut down the extension program they had in Fukuoka...
NCTBA |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| That's nice, but in entrance exam situations I've been in (HS and uni), correcting the exams went well into the night. |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm...maybe the schools that my cohort-mates, both Japanese and foreigner, worked for gave some extra consideration to those who were attempting to upgrade their creds? I never thought about asking...
NCTBA |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: How is an Ed.D. viewed in Japan (compared to Ph.D.) |
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| Vince wrote: |
| Drizzt wrote: |
| The ones who have an Ed.D. claim its equivalent to the Ph.D., but those that have Ph.D. have all advised against it. |
As I understand it, the Ed.D. is aimed at education professionals such as teachers, principals, or administrators. The PhD is more for education academics such as researchers or professors. |
And this is where the problem may be. Universities in Japan (and everywhere else) are primarily concerned with the university, not teaching the students. In Japan, they want publications, although publications don't say anything about your ability to teach (although they do suggest the area you are interested in and that you are 'serious' [enough to jump through hoops in order to get the university job in Japan- you don't need publications in other countries, and yet somehow the average student leaves school with a much higher level of English from those other countries]). The main reason for the publication requirement is for public relations.
That said, the term PhD is 'famous'. EdD just isn't. People talk about getting a PhD in music, too. But in fact, if you look at the professors of faculties of music, you'll see a lot of things other than PhD (like MusDoc, DMus etc). It could be that PhD is just being used to mean 'doctorate'. There would be very little point in Temple (Japan) offering a degree that can't be used in the country. |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:49 am Post subject: Re: How is an Ed.D. viewed in Japan (compared to Ph.D.) |
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| I'd appreciate it if somebody with TEFL experience at a Japanese university could tell me about the nature of the work and what level of degree is truly sufficient for what foreign EFL teachers actually do on a daily basis. Does the typical foreign EFL prof enjoy professional stature similar to EFL profs in their native countries (not that the stature is very high at home either, from what I'm told)? Does the foreign EFL prof enjoy similar stature to, for example, a similarly accomplished Japanese professor of economics? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:26 am Post subject: Re: How is an Ed.D. viewed in Japan (compared to Ph.D.) |
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| Vince wrote: |
| I'd appreciate it if somebody with TEFL experience at a Japanese university could tell me about the nature of the work and what level of degree is truly sufficient for what foreign EFL teachers actually do on a daily basis. |
I've been full-time at a national uni for the past 4+ years now. Have attended some JALT meetings and made contacts with people from Hokkaido to Kyushu in the uni world.
The level of degree? Look at the ads. Most want a minimum of a master's degree in some field like linguistics. Depends on the uni. Some say PhD "preferred", which means they'll take a master's if the background and experience are right. Some want only a PhD.
The nature of the work.
In a FT job, you may have 10-13 courses to teach throughout the year, they can be divided into any ratio (4 & 6 for spring and fall, for example). Classes are usually 90 minutes long and meet only once a week. Depending on the school, students may be able to be absent only 3 times before they cannot get credit.
Teachers usually have full reign over what to do in the classroom, but there is usually some syllabus to use as background. Don't know about the freedom most people have to rewrite that.
The nature of the classes varies widely -- oral communication, reading skills, listening skills, writing at the lower or higher levels, etc. -- but most foreign teachers tend to use English most of the time in the classroom (again, depends on how low/high students are). You may have access to computer room facilities or not. Grading is entirely up to you, but there is usually some uni policy to follow for passing.
There is an option where I work to have the uni administer a feedback survey in Japanese to students at the end of the semester. This info gets used in determining promotions (along with other things). I often give a survey of my own because the uni's survey doesn't cover the things I want to learn to improve my classes.
What else do you want to know?
| Quote: |
| Does the typical foreign EFL prof enjoy professional stature similar to EFL profs in their native countries (not that the stature is very high at home either, from what I'm told)? |
What "stature" is that? Lots of foreigners in Japan who don't know the uni circuit have an image of stodgy, stuffy, lofty-minded uni profs and think that we are all like that, when it is not true. Yes, some are highly focused only on their linguistics research, while others are more into pedagogy and how to get things done in class, etc. Most that I have met are very friendly and not the stereotype I described above. I wouldn't run in those circles anyway.
I have no idea what sort of "stature" my American or British, etc. counterpart has in the USA, UK, etc. I only met a couple of them before getting into this biz.
Do you want to know if the uni sees foreign teachers as equals to the J profs? If so, I'd say most of the time, no.
| Quote: |
| Does the foreign EFL prof enjoy similar stature to, for example, a similarly accomplished Japanese professor of economics? |
Nope, not usually in my opinion. Many think that uni EFL classes are nothing more than eikaiwa, which is not always the case. There are many exceptions to how we are perceived, however. Some foreign profs are seen as equals in terms of responsibilities. Depends on the uni. There are some unis that have language departments where all the EFL profs come from, but in other unis, there may be EFL profs within the science department, or econ department, etc.
One thing that stands out to make foreign profs less than equals is the contract basis on which we are hired and lack of tenure, compared to what J profs get. Read the case study at the bottom of this recent JALT PALE SIG newsletter.
http://www.debito.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/PALEMay2010.pdf
Here's a snippet:
This past December, just before winter vacation,
the owner of the college where I teach called me
into his office and announced in no uncertain terms
that in 3 months, at the end of March, I would be
fired. After 24 years working for the school, with
hardly any advanced warning, I was to be among
the unemployed, and at an age (56) when it would
be all but impossible to find a similar position in
Japan.
The owner, not so generously, said he would allow
me to continue as a part-timer at the bottom of the
pay scale, with a loss of health care benefits, at an
income which, unless I came up with something to
supplement it, would impossible to live on. In
addition, he made it a point to explain, though I
might have thought I was fulltime, for the first 5
years, (when I taught at both his high school and
college) I actually was a part-timer, and that I could
expect my retirement package to reflect it.
Last edited by Glenski on Wed May 12, 2010 4:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:12 am Post subject: Re: How is an Ed.D. viewed in Japan (compared to Ph.D.) |
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Thanks, Glenski.
| Glenski wrote: |
| The level of degree? Look at the ads. |
I know what the ads ask for. My question was getting at whether a PhD is overkill for what the typical EFL prof actually does. Stepping aside the obvious answer that "it's necessary if the boss says it is," does it truly take a PhD with a weighty list of publications to get the students where they need to be? According to your description of the duties, it sounds like an MA in TESOL or applied linguistics would be adequate and an EdD excellent. Do you agree?
| Quote: |
| Do you want to know if the uni sees foreign teachers as equals to the J profs? If so, I'd say most of the time, no. |
That's what I was asking.
| Quote: |
| I have no idea what sort of "stature" my American or British, etc. counterpart has in the USA, UK, etc. I only met a couple of them before getting into this biz. |
From what I heard in the US, the TESOL department of at least one large university doesn't consider itself to be very highly regarded. I recall the words "bottom of the barrel."
| Quote: |
| Nope, not usually in my opinion. Many think that uni EFL classes are nothing more than eikaiwa...One thing that stands out to make foreign profs less than equals is the contract basis on which we are hired and lack of tenure, compared to what J profs get. |
That's what I thought. Thanks again. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:36 am Post subject: Re: How is an Ed.D. viewed in Japan (compared to Ph.D.) |
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| Vince wrote: |
Thanks, Glenski.
| Glenski wrote: |
| The level of degree? Look at the ads. |
I know what the ads ask for. My question was getting at whether a PhD is overkill for what the typical EFL prof actually does. Stepping aside the obvious answer that "it's necessary if the boss says it is," does it truly take a PhD with a weighty list of publications to get the students where they need to be? According to your description of the duties, it sounds like an MA in TESOL or applied linguistics would be adequate and an EdD excellent. Do you agree? |
Yes. Now just try to convince a department that is hiring and gets 20-100 applicants for one job. How else can they sort through the applications? They aren't so hard on teaching themselves; just stand in front of a class and lecture, don't expect much homework, and grade 50% on attendance and 50% on a final exam or report. |
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Ursula
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 5
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:14 pm Post subject: Just a suggestion... |
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You might want to contact students in the EdD program at Temple and get their perspectives on the program and also ask about the job outcomes for graduates. I know Columbia has a campus in Tokyo, but not sure if they offer PhDs or EdDs.
I looked into PhD and EdD programs and ended up deciding to do a PhD just because it seemed like it would open up more doors than the EdD. Also, most of my coworkers had PhD's and I didn't know anyone with an EdD. I also ended up getting into a PhD program that was a better fit than the EdD I applied to. Its a personal choice. Either degree is a big commitment of time, so make sure you feel confident about whichever program you choose.
I can say that the PhD is very research oriented. The EdD programs that I looked into were more practitioner oriented (the dissertation requirements were way way shorter too). It seemed like a lot of the EdD students had jobs and were pursuing the EdD on the side. In general, it seems the EdD is geared more toward administration. Personally, I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. I think when you apply to jobs, they are going to be looking at where your degree came from, publications, and experience.
My suggestion is to go with the program that is the best fit for you. I also suggest checking out the programs completion rates. A lot of PhD programs have really low completion rates. Also check with the department and ask what jobs the students get after graduation. Its also a good idea to make sure there is a professor in the department with similar research interests. Best of luck! |
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