Job Discussion Forums

[btait]

Hello All!

I relied on this forum extensively before comming to China with my fiancee and must thank all those who spend time sharring thier knowledge. We could not have come this far with you!

Currently we are negotiating with a private business school that is granting tertiary Business diplomas through a partnership with CIE (Cambridge International Examinations). There are only a few schools in China that are partnered with CIE and of these schools, OUYA is the only one to offer all of their courses in English. After graduating, many students will enter directly into business positions with corporate partners of the school or will continue thier business studies in Britain or the US. Classes include Marketing/Sales/HR/Customer Service/Business Finance, etc etc.

My background is in corporate sales/marketing and corporate training. I also have a CELTA certificate. The classes I will be teaching are Human Resources and Marketing. So, I am well qualified to teach these classes and from what I can gather there is a limited supply of qualified candidates here in Tianjin (If there is the school does not know how to find the candidates). Now that you have some context, here are the problems and my questions!!

Issue I: The �Official� SAFEA Contract

SAFEA (State Bureau of Foreign Experts) published a document titled:

�Provisional Measures Concerning the Management of Overseas Organizations and Domestic Intermediary Organizations Introducing Foreign Experts in the Cultural and Educational Fields to Work in China�

According to Article 7 clause 8 of this document,

[gerard]

Hello and welcome , let me try these questions and others can correct me if I am wrong...The REFERENCE letter is really not necessary for a Z visa. I was told before arriving that I would need 2 of these from former employers or a University. When I arrived I explained I was not able to get these. Magically it was not a problem and I had a work visa within 3 weeks. I am at a new school now and this time I was not even asked. Maybe these schools have "guanxi" but I did not need these letters. I think they want them for themselves and not for the Immigration office. I was even told as much at my first job which was a public school.

20 hours is most certainly full time and you would be entitled to all benefits. My first school was 12 classes - meaning about 10 hours a week. I was not expected to put in office hours or even be on campus for that matter when I was not in class. I did spend time on campus but only because I am such a wonderful and dedicated person. But if they demand you spend 40 hours a week RUN from the job even though it sounds good.

And yes these benefits like return airfare and AC and drinking water are govt rules. They are not there because the school are such wonderful employers. As for whether they apply to both public and private schools ---of course---they apply to any place that can get you a Z visa.

Lqast thing Ithink this may be true about the seal on contracts... Funny though I had a Z visa long before I ever signed a contract which suggests they are not very important. On the other hand if you go to war with your employer you may need it... Luckily so far I have been dealing with trustworthy people. IMHO if you battle with the Chinese the contract will not be worth much. But I am likely wrong about that...

[btait]

Gerard,

Thanks for the quick reply!!

First, an update. I have recieved a referal and so this is a non-issue...although it will be helpfull to know our legal rights, so answers to the issue of needing referals to get the Z-Visa is greatly appreciated.

If I understand you correctly Gerard:
1. 20 hrs of teaching is considered full time and I should not have to put in extra hours at the school. If so, I should be looking somewhere else.

2. The "government rules" concerning benefits apply to anyone who gets a z-visa and is working as a teacher. You confirmed that these benefits include RETURN airfare, drinking water, AC.

3. The official SAFEA contract with the seal may be important if I ever need to "got to war" with my employer. (as a side note, according to what I understand about the employment law here a contract should be signed after, not before, recieving your z-visa)

Questions for clarification:
1. Is it your observation that the "government rules" detailed by SAFEA about benefits apply to anyone who gets a z-visa (both public and private schools) or is there somewhere you can direct me to that shows this in writing? Or, is this just common knowledge and I am getting caught up in legaleze?

2. I know there is an official document, that I can not find, that describes the benefits a full-time teacher with a z-visa should legally get. Do you know what it is called and can you direct me to it? If not, can you give a more detailed account of the benefits I should expect?

3. Here is a link to the SAFEA contract I refer to above.
http://www.china-tesol.com/SAFEA_Contract/safea_contract.html
Are you familiar with this contract? Have you ever seen this? Does anyone have information as to its validity and necessity?

Thanks again!

Brian

[arioch36]

Well, there are rules, there are laws, there are guidelines, and there are SOP's Standard operating procedures. Much that you ask has little to do with the law. Where will you live? Where the school says you will live, unless agreed on otherwise.

The law covers a few things...ie, to get your z-visa, the school needs to send you an invitation letter. Does this mean the schools is legal? Usually, for colleges and high schools. Often not for private schools, which will try to make an arrangement with a college to hire you. The school sent you a stamped invitation letter from the provincial bureau? Then you can get your z-visa

Most things are not covered by law. The guidelines of the Bureau list a lot of shoulds, but what is important is what you negotaite. 10 hours, or 30 hours, what does the contract say?If you have the z-visa, and you are here legally, you can be teaching only six hours. Apartment, the same. what does your contract say? etc. You should expect the benefits that are in your contract. You should not expect benefits that are not in your contract. The school should fax or e-mail you the contract. You sign the legal contract when you get here, but the faxed contract shows the intent of the parties.

If the contract says nothing about airfare, expect a hard fight over getting it. All such things should be in the contract.

Finally, get in touch with the school's previous foreign teachers ( I mistake i made last year, not doing this.) All the stuff they say is PR crap, even from the best schools. If they don't let you contact the previous teachers, you should ask yourself why?

[btait]

Arioch36:

I realized after reading your post that I left out a major point: I am allready in Tianjin negotiating with the school in person. I am here on a visitors visa and will have it changed.

I am interested in the "legal rules." If I do everything I can by the book and force the school to do so as well then if there ever are contractual issues and we need to go to battle I will be able to defend myself.

If I sign a contract with no z-visa the contract is invalid...so I can't defend myself.

If I sign a contract and the z-visa employer is a university but my tax information is for a different location (an incongruency of some sort) then it will also be hard to defend myself, should I need to.

I know there are laws out there, I have found quite a few of them. I also understand that they are not normally followed. But it has been my experience, thus far, that forcign my future employer to follow them has made them take me much more seriously. They understand that I will not accept b-s.

So, what are the legal requirements for benefits and living arrangements if I am working full time at a private school with a 1 year contract? I understand the negotiating bit...we have negotiated for HOURS AND HOURS. What I want is some information to back up my requests:)

Thanks and looking forward to more insight!

Brian

[Roger]

Dear Brian,

first thing: the SAFEA.
It came to my attention the first time when I was reading an abstract by one Niu Qiang and M. Wolff; you can download it too from
www.teflchina.org/jobs/intro/Niu_and_Wolff.htmtl
It does not clarify all your queries, though, and it's a rather long read including poll results from TEFLers on how they view the situation.

Anyway, the Work visa is issued for two types of teachers:
- "foreign English teachers";
- "Foreign Experts".
I used to believe there was a clear-cut difference the two of them, but I am certain many posters would disagree with me there. In general, FE's seem to enjoy a better standing. Universities would hire you as a FE, but primary school would take you as simple foreign English teachers.
Of course, the requirements for a university teacher are more demanding than those for a primary school teacher specialising in oral practice. You might typically have to produce your MA, whereas in lower-level schools it could be regarded as meeting their requirements if you are a native speaker. I hope you have noted my use of the modal verbs of 'might' and 'could'.

I hasten to add that I have NEVER SEEN THE OFFICIAL SAFEA contract, but I would doubt it would be legal with annotations made by your employer. As mentioned in your post, you must use official documents, not copied versions - enough said there!

Those perks listed there seem to be standard ones; 20 hours a week is a bit high at a university. Does it specify any paid holidays? Airfare is due upon completion of terms. In addition, all public schools offer you some holiday travel allowance per one year, some per semester. IT's not a lot, but it helps fund your travelling in the country.

Housing often leads to some disputes. In general, FE's enjoy excellent accommodation, but you have no legal handle to get what you desire. Dorm accommodation is still relatively common in socialist China -for their multitudes of bachelors.
Your fiancee may or may not sway their decision on how to house you; officially she is not your wife, and in China cohabitation is not normally allowed though widely tolerated.

When will you sign a contract?
Usually before applying for your work visa. The police will grant you a work visa provided they are satisfied the school meets their criteria.

Housing subsidies:
A new concept in this country, though one that has earned some currency in Shanghai. In Tianjin, I doubt it's common enough.

Tax:
Your employer should deduct any tax, and give you a receipt from the tax authority. I don't think you can be taxed for income made outside of the university unless it's in consequence of your university job.
Theoretically, foreign nationals must declare all their incomes to the tax authority in China; in the past this meant expats had to declare book royalties or pension fund payments to their Chinese tax authorities...
In theory... ...but in practice itis not possible...