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scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I was surprised to learn that many "Native Speakers" take the IELTS Exam in the UK to increase their points for immigration to Canad/NZ/Australia. Apparently you can get more points on your application for a good IELTS result. Of course many of the non-literate inhabitants of the Offshore Islands have huge problems with this.

Language Schools are happy to offer tailor-made courses to help these Sun-readers cope with all those long sentences with hard words. Of course they need to improve their ability in Spoken English. " I was like, well you know, yeah. Awesome."

Insubordination · Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Posts: 394 Location: Sydney

Native speakers can do surprisingly badly on IELTS. Don't know about the listening and reading but I've given a '4' in one section of the writing and they often get '7' on topic - like I dunno- development in the speaking exam.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Dumbing down is a reality.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

It seems that most candidates in the category of "Native Speaker" have problems with the Reading paper and also with Writing.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:06 am Post subject:

It seems counter-intuitive when we see that native speakers can get low marks on IELTS etc. But it starts to make sense once we realise that there is no 'native speaker' band as such in IELTS. The top band is called 'expert user' of English. Sadly, not all native speakers of English are expert users . Heck, not even all native speaker teachers are either.

Mr_Monkey · Joined: 11 Mar 2009 Posts: 661 Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu

It's a rather specialised form of reading and writing that many NSes rarely have opportunity to practise. I'm not surprised many people struggle with it, particularly those that have never read an academic paper, are unused to describing graphs or giving a coherent written opinion, and haven't taken a test since they were 16 or 18.

We talk about exam strategies with our students, those skills are not language skills!

I wonder how the results would compare for NSes taking the CPE as opposed to the IELTS.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:02 am Post subject:

I think it is only a specialised form of reading and writing if the native speaker in question never went to university. So, it can easily happen that a non-native speaker can have far better academic skills than uneducated English speakers, even in an English language test. I doubt the results would be any different in the Cambridge suite, though as far as I know they are not open to native speakers of any description.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I would have thought that a reasonable secondary-level education (with Englsish as mother-tongue) should equip people with the ability to pass IELTS.

Perhaps further evidence that I am out of touch with life in post-modern Anglophonia. This summer as I went about my business in my native Scotland I often felt like a visitor from a far and distant planet, where things are done differently.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:12 pm Post subject:

The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. As L.P. Hartley said.

You don't pass or fail IELTS. You get a band which measures how will you can use the language. A secondary education would not be enough to equip you to get a band 9, though this sounds strange when talking about native speakers. But just look at how some posters even on this forum treat the written word. Not all of them would achieve a band 9. God knows what they did at university...

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Very well, Comrade Sasha. There is no pass/fail. We are all differently-abled. Universities should be compulsory for all citizens.

I want a time machine so I can go back to 1963.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:39 pm Post subject:

Dear Scot47

I'm not making it up and its not some PC nonsense either. FCE or CAE has a set standard that exam-takers must reach in order to pass those exams. IELTS or TOEFL do not. Different systems. The latter are open to all takers, regardless of ability, and their results simply mark them on a scale which encompasses every possible proficiency. If you are an elementary user of English, then you'll get a low band on IELTS, if you are an expert user ... etc.

No need to go back to '63.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

But Comrade, it was BETTER then, when Nikita Sergeyivich was First Secretary of the Party !

And incidentally I dii know about the Pass/Fail set up. I have ben working with Cambridge Exams since before you were in diapers (sorry - "nappies")

Sashadroogie · Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:25 pm Post subject:

Fair enough Scot47. You have much more experience in Cambridge exams than I have. So where from comes this surprise that an IELTS 9 is not a done deal if a native speaker takes the test?

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I did not expect them all to get 9 but was surprised at how low some of them scored. I should have remembered that a large percentage of the population of Anglophonia have restricted literacy.

Murdoch and the other successors to the Press Barons have a lot to answer for.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:04 pm Post subject:

But this was always the case with literacy and education, even back in '63. Perhaps nostalgia is altering memories. In fact, I'd say that there are more people now than ever before who are not totally backward, so that's got to be a good thing. Of course there are still The Mirror and The Sun readers, but there always will be some like that.

That is until the total sovietization of the UK and then everyone will have the same high academic standards hic!