Job Discussion Forums

[mejms]

Who uses or knows of Spanish-English specific materials for class? Text books and most ESL resources I've seen are general-- not for any particular nationality. I haven't taught English in other countries, say the Middle East, but I imagine that it's quite different. Mexicans tend to make the same mistakes, just like native English speakers I'm sure make the same mistakes when speaking in Spanish. We all translate when starting out and even when we speak more proficiently, if we are trying to say something tricky, I think we resort to translating from time to time.

I'm not of the semi-popular opinion that you shouldn't use Spanish in the classroom and that we learn a second language like we learned our first, simple immersion. If you live in a place where the language that you want to learn is the primary language, perfect. That's ideal. But if you live in your native country, spend time at work and with family everyday using your native language, I don't think the immersion attitude in the classroom is all that beneficial. Quite honestly, I teach translating in my classes, sometimes vocabulary and sometimes expressions that are completely different in English and Spanish. This is especially true for beginners to, say, pre-intermediate level. But it still holds water for more conversational, advanced students.

Well, to get back to the question, I hear a lot about methodology, but doesn't it mostly depend on who the students are, where they're from, and most importantly, what their native language is? I can usually anticipate the mistakes my students are going to make, regardless of their level. So who uses Spanish-English specific materials? And who disagrees with me? For those who speak Spanish, doesn't that give you a huge advantage as an ESL teacher in Mexico?

[Dragonlady]

out of date

[mejms]

I appreciate the input about Mario Herrera. I checked out his profile on the link you provided, and he definitely seems to focus on children.

I'm not sure what exactly you disagree with since you weren't exactly clear on everything in my post, but maybe you were just trying to be cute. Nice try at the opening joke, too .

[TheLongWayHome]

I usually use Spanish in an English class to check understanding. It's an eye-opener. If you give a class in English, Mexicans will swear they understand everything. If you check vocabulary in a reading, Mexicans will swear they understand every word. Yet if you ask them what a random word means and they probably won't be able to tell you, not even in Spanish. So I use it to measure what is being understood. The fact is that what is understood is probably about 50% less than you imagine.

For students to learn English in a class that is 100% in English, it has to be another subject such as maths, physics etc. Only then do they actually learn English.

Teaching the English language by explaining grammar rules and filling in the gaps then doing some activity that involves post-it notes just doesn't work (if the objective of the class is to learn to interact in another language). If the objective of the class is just to memorise some rules to pass a test (not actual language learning) then this method is fine.

The bottom line for me is that the whole class must understand what is going on otherwise they tune out, get bored and stop learning. Unfortunately most of the tefl/coursebook repertoire is detrimental to actual language learning, in my opinion, which lead me to jump off the 'English must be spoken at all times in class, even if no student understands what the hell is going on' bandwagon.

[Guy Courchesne]

[Isla Guapa]

[geaaronson]

I agree with Guy and the poster on this one. I am not a purist in terms of restricting English to the classroom. Unfortunately, the reality is that students are at different levels and aptitudes within the same classroom and they do not always understand what the teacher is saying. When you revert to Spanish occasionally you can cover the most essential points and the students will then pick up on them.
Here at this university the unenforced rule is that we are expected to speak only in English. The department chair claims to do that but even he I suspect succumbs to an occasional Spanish. The other teachers often speak in Spanish. One teacher comprehends Spanish but is not able to speak it very well so she speaks no spanish in class. In fact, I have not ever heard her speak Spanish other than to verify a translation.
The issue had come up about 20% of my students do not understand me when I speak in English. Rather than let them remain in the dark and also, to be truthful, because they have gone to administration and requested a change to a teacher whose spanish is fluent, I speak Spanish more and more in the classroom. We`re talking university students from SEP public schools in the Yucatan. Their education is pitiful here in the backwater of the country.

[spiral78]

Actually, I think the 'English only' idea has been pretty thoroughly debunked in the wider literature, though I believe it's still featured in most newbie-level certification courses.

I often let students work together in both their L1 and in English to produce something in English, and there's certainly nothing wrong with a bit of translation to speed things along.

I also think it's a bit puzzling that there aren't more coursebooks geared specifically for speakers of different language groups. I very rarely use coursebooks, but when I must, it's endlessly frustrating to have to skip over the bits that simply don't apply.

I think the books are mostly written for the classrooms Isla Guapa has come from - mixed L1. In that case, the generalities are obviously necessary.

So, guys, shall we get together and write a set of coursebooks for speakers of various language groups? I think it's a tremendous niche market.....anybody game (and got the extra time?)

[Isla Guapa]

[Guy Courchesne]

[spiral78]

I can envision very useful books tailored for all the large language groups. Slavs, Arabic speakers, Germanic languages....the list goes on, and the markets are huge!
Still think it's a good idea.

[geaaronson]

The rumor is that students do not like her as she is too strict. That is from a real sweetheart of a teacher who gives out very easy tests,(my best friend in the department, but yes that is my take on him. He on the other hand, thinks I am testing to deliberately flunk the kids.)
What happens is that when a teacher gives out easy assignments and tests students get fantastic grades, the poor ones as well as the brighter, more industrious students. but when the test is harder and the students have to think a little more then grades spread out. The brighter students get the same great grades, but now the weaker ones have poor or failing grades.

The teacher in question is one who is not particularly well liked in the department. She has been recurringly argumentative, finger-pointed blame, thrown hissy fits.

On the other hand she has been relatively free of extraordinarios. That`s the testing we give students who have failed a course and offer them an opportunity to reclaim their status as students. Since we are on a block scheduling program, should a student fail any course he is expelled from school for a year until that course is offered again.

I believe that to be a very bad program policy but it is one that is prevalent here in mexico. The university in Atlanta tried to implement that and over 70% of our students walked away from the school. That`s the principal cause for which I am here in Mexico, so to begin with, I am not particularly endeared to block scheduling.

In the last two semesters I have tied for the greatest number of students
taking the extraordinario. The other teacher is extremely strict in his policies, more so than I am. So yes, I feel that I need to improve my record. It is unclear to me what my performance is as far as being a good teacher but what is clear is that I have higher standards that several of the others as evidenced in testing.

[Isla Guapa]

[TheLongWayHome]

[gregd75]

Wow what an interesting thread.

I think that teachers use Spanish in their English class either to speed things along or because they are lazy. There are other ways to check understanding in your class, other than checking in L1. Mexicans, along with any other nationality in the world will, of course, tell a teacher that they understand even if they don't. I mean... who wants to admit that they didn't understand what the teacher just taught them??

Even the simplest teacher training courses tell you NOT to ask students the dreadful question...'DO YOU UNDERSTAND?'

We seem to be forgetting that we are in the lucky situation of having monolingual EFL classes. What would you do if you had a Mexican, A Japanese, a Chinese, A Russian and a Greek in your EFL class? (And this very often is the case in EFL courses in the UK) You can't simply ask questions in L1 in a multilingual class. You need to be creative and find ways to check understanding. One tip that I picked up was for students to show me 'thumbs up = understand' thumbs down = don't understand... no problem, we'll go over the point again and thumbs neither up nor down = I only so so understand.

If you have pretaught vocabulary (as is often the textbook approach) then you shouldnt have to use Spanish. Realia, drawing pictures and synonyms of course help too!

Modeling- both correct grammatical points and incirrect grammatical points works too.

Of course, all of these activities mean that the teacher may have to work a little more to prepare their classes..... easier to fall back on Spanish, isn't it?