Job Discussion Forums

[Ozzy2]

Hi. This is my first post on this forum. I have a Bachelors and Masters in economics. I'm 55, have worked as an economist, then the last few years as a TA in Australian universities while attempting a Ph D. I have just decided to drop the Ph D, so won't ever have been what most people consider a "professor". I've just done CELTA. How big a hindrance is being my age? How many people does anyone know who have gotten employment in Japan as a newbie at my age? Any other suggestions /advice related to age?

[gaijinalways]

It's possible, but more difficult in some places as some of the Japanese unis stop hiring new blood after 62 (you can actually work as a part-timer until you're 70). Have you studied any Japanese or taught any Japanese uni students?

As to other work, it's possible, though some schools prefer younger bodies. Also of course, you'll be competing with a lot of young grads for those same types of jobs (conversation/dispatch, etc.).

[Ozzy2]

Yes, I studied high school Japanese on Saturdays and then 1st year University Japanese 13 years ago. I'm currently re-enrolled in first year Japanese to brush up. I also home hosted many Japanese students but that was mostly years ago. Is any of that likely to help? And how do I portray that in the best light?

[Ozzy2]

Sorry, but what is a dispatch/dispatcher?

[fluffyhamster]

Dispatchers are basically recruitment agencies which compete for outsourced (i.e. tendered, supposedly cheaper, fixed-term contract) work. In the context of ELT, they usually dispatch to public junior high and elementary schools, and are at best not quite top-rate employers, and can be downright dodgy, because they often ignore or even flout labor laws and official regulations (for example, by not paying into NHI, denying paid leave, "messing up" established neat "chains of command" and therefore clouding issues of accountability, responsibility etc etc). By any absolute definition then ELT-related dispatch work is pretty illegal.

Anyway, there is seemingly no end of these sorts of ELT employers around, representative players being Interac, RCS, and Borderlink (arranged in a roughly best-worst order, IMHO), and there was a growing awareness that what they were delivering (or rather, giving to their Assistant English Teachers) after taking their cut wasn't worth what the Boards of Education were paying, or parents demanding etc, but unfortunately there probably just isn't enough money in the kitty now to go back to the halycon days of direct employment approaching anything like JET programme/benchmark standards, even though that might be what some BOEs would now like to do after experiencing the high AET turnover of some dispatch companies (I mean, if you are paying somebody to help teach English, then pay them, don't pay somebody else and let them cream off loads!). And doubtless there are still some Japanese teachers and BOE bigwigs (a "fair minority" at least?) who perceive the problems to not be related to low pay but rather simply a deficiency in the foreign labour to suck "anything" up ('We were kind enough to employ you and this is how you repay us - by being a pain and necessitating even one call from or to the dispatcher etc'. [=We would actually prefer it if there were no foreigners at all working in our school! Even if they are unfailingly polite, informed and considerate, they ideally shouldn't be seen, and certainly not heard, despite the fact that it's actually Japanese that they're speaking] - 'Nope, you were kind enough to award a contract to that company, and they are my employers, and I am now telling you, bad ones!').

A recent thread:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=79428

You'll find lots more however by searchng for 'dispatc*', and the companies mentioned above.

But of course, like Riggs and Murtaugh, you may have already decided you are simply "Too old for this...AET business", though I suppose that some sort of fancier/independent eikaiwa (private conversation school) e.g. one that does business/company classes, could be something you'd consider.

[Glenski]

My first suggestion is to do a search on this site. There is a recent thread about age-related issues that you probably should have joined instead of starting one of your own.

Bottom line:
You will find it somewhat hard to get work for age-related reasons.

More specific will depend on what kind of job you seek. You're as minimally qualified as most newbies no matter what age. That is, you can expect work as an ALT through a dispatch agency (read my thread on the ALT scam first), an eikaiwa instructor, or because you have had work experience elsewhere you can also try looking for business English jobs.

Biggest second suggestion: learn what the market here holds. It's pretty flooded with teachers, so competition for every job is high.

[benshi]

Don't give up if you really want to take a shot, though. . .I was 48 when I got hired and arrived here 8 years ago, and I've loved pretty much every minute of it!

[Apsara]

To portray your Japanese study in the best light, look at sitting the JLPT (Japanese Language Proficiency Test) next time it comes around. If you are able to pass at least level 2, that is something worth emphasising. As there are now 5 levels, level 3 may also be worthwhile letting employers know about. "First year university Japanese" won't mean much to employers as they don't know what kind of level you will have reached after that, but if you can show them an actual standardised test result they will have a much better idea of your skills.

[flyer]

Are there jobs for 55 year olds?
yes
But is it a good age to enter the teaching scene?
No
If you are determined, I am sure you could get a job (esp at some dispatch companies) but .... timing would be important I think? School starts in April so you would need to apply in Jan/Feb (??) to max your chances (??)

Good luck

[englishbear]

One of the main reasons why it becomes more difficult to get an ALT job after say, 35 or so, is mainly due to the average age of the teachers at the schools. This is not commonly discussed on the forums, and is usually summed up as "X company is bad, A company took my money" and other garbage.

Your age may make it quite difficult to get a position as an ALT, especially if you are applying from outside of the country. As the name "ALT" implies, we are supposed to be "assistants." (whether this actually be the case or not depends on the schools/teachers) As assistants, depending on the type of contract (Haken/Itaku), the teachers may or may not have the legal right to ask us to do things when teaching, or while at work. Since the average age of the teachers at the schools will be much younger than you, they will find it difficult to "order you around" in a sense. This is one main reason why many of the BOEs tend to prefer younger teachers. Additionally, as is the case when hiring people for Japanese companies, the general idea is that younger people tend to be more obedient and flexible whereas older, more experienced people tend to be set in their ways making them more difficult to deal with when ideas/opinions differ.

If you are applying within the country, your chances will increase slightly. To be quite blunt, if you are willing to work anywhere as an ALT, you may be able to land a position in an area that is not very attractive to most other people (i.e. in the middle of nowhere) As someone else mentioned, taking the JLPT and passing at least level 2 would be quite beneficial. If you want to land a job and have no experience and a very low Japanese language ability, it will be quite difficult.

Hope this was helpful, and pardon me if my candor seemed a bit rude.

[steki47]

I have met teachers who were in their 50s, mostly teaching corporate classes. In eikaiwa, I met a few teachers in that age bracket. Generally, the biggest problem I saw was interacting with other (much younger) teachers.

Having said that, last night I had a beer with an American guy who is around 55 or so. Retired military, BS in education, 4 years teaching in Korea and now 4-5 years in Japan. He's an ALT with one of the big dispatch companies. Nice guy, seems content with his job.

[markcmc]

With persistence you should be able to find a job. I used to hire teachers in Taiwan, and the main problem with people over 45 was that they were not able to adapt themselves to new situations. All potential teachers in our school had to do a demo class, and older teachers typically lectured the children without involving them. The few PhD holders who applied were some of the worst at this.

It doesn't have to be this way - I'm just describing what I've encountered. If a teacher was over 50 and had 30 years of relevant teaching experience, then my attitude was completely different, and so was their ability in the classroom.

[Glenski]

I'm in my 50s but have already established myself here for over a decade. I've moved up the chain from eikaiwa to private HS to university.

You (Ozzy2) don't have that luxury, but you have been working (as an economist) in an area that might be very useful in a business English setting. See what the business English agencies think about matching you with the right clients.

Otherwise, you may just have to bit the bullet and go with whatever eikaiwa or ALT agency has a desire to take you on just to get your foot in the door. They do exist.

[gaijinalways]

It's true, many of the older teachers I meet here have already been here a while (one arrived while I was still in high school!) .

That being said, the corporate classes are probably better as some of the students prefer older teachers with actual business experience/knowledge.

steki47 posted

[Shimokitazawa]

People in their 50s and 40s have come over and found EFL teaching jobs at all levels - universities, high schools, and conversation schools.

Ageism is a factor here, particularly in the eikaiwa industry. But apparently it's not impossible to find EFL work in Japan for people who are these ages.