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maotouying
Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 119
Location: My Chair In China
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 Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: Are FT in China being taken advantage of? |
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hey all check out this link I find it INTERESTING
http://www.echinacities.com/main/ExpatCorner/ExpatsCorner.aspx?n=4165
Pay attention to what F/China posted look on down.
and Check out the Wiki
its in black and white and in English. Article 44, Article 46, Article 47, Article 50
Article 47 Is worth looking at let me quote it
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| Article 47. A worker shall be paid severance pay based on the number of years worked with the Employer at the rate of one month�s wage for each full year worked. Any period of less than one year shall be counted as one year. If the monthly wage of a worker is greater than three times the average monthly wage of employees in the municipality directly under the central government or municipality divided into districts where the Employer is located, the rate for the severance pay paid to him shall be three times the average monthly wage of employees and shall be for not more than 12 years of work. For the purposes of this Article, the term �monthly wage� means the worker�s average monthly wage for the 12 months prior to the termination or ending of his employment contract. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Employment_Law |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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This crops up time and again.
Don't confuse China law for Chinese citizens with the regulations pertaining to foreigners or "Foreign Experts".
Look at your contract. If it isn't in there, you wont be getting it. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Teatime of Soul wrote: |
| This crops up time and again. Don't confuse China law for Chinese citizens with the regulations pertaining to foreigners or "Foreign Experts". |
precisely. guest workers are subject to different labour laws than locals in many countries, incl. many of the developed countries.
I'd be interested in knowing if most Chinese people even manage to get that one month of severance pay for each year or partial year worked. |
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la dolce vita
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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are FTs in china being taken advantage of?
yes
come on man. i am in a language mill and i earn 5 times more than most chinese people, i could earn a lot more if i applied myself
china is more capitalist than anyone and all the capitalist countries MOD EDIT |
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Big Poppa Pump
Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 167
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| China, truly a worker's paradise if you are willing to work for it. |
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gene
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't confuse China law for Chinese citizens with the regulations pertaining to foreigners or "Foreign Experts". |
Labor laws are across the board...regulations can pertain to specialized groups..anyone can make a complaint to the local labor board and ask for mediation of any breach of labor laws... |
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dakelei
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 351
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| China has many "laws" and "regulations" regarding the rights of workers. Few are enforced and are basically worthless. |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| gene wrote: |
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| Don't confuse China law for Chinese citizens with the regulations pertaining to foreigners or "Foreign Experts". |
Labor laws are across the board...regulations can pertain to specialized groups..anyone can make a complaint to the local labor board and ask for mediation of any breach of labor laws... |
One can ask, but expected to be immediately redirected to the local SAFEA/PSB for handling. This is a well visited matter. You might want to check some old threads if you are interested.
Labor board will almost certainly pass the issue to the correct authorities. Unless you are a Chinese citizen, whereupon you can cast your lot to the vagaries of it's enforcement.
It all boils down to this, if it isn't in your contract, don't expect it. |
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gene
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Labor board will almost certainly pass the issue to the correct authorities. Unless you are a Chinese citizen, whereupon you can cast your lot to the vagaries of it's enforcement. |
For salary conflicts the labor board is the authority where the complaint is made and since labor laws deal with all workers, foreigners also must make their complaint through this office. Action on a complaint will only come from this office after the applicant has issued a formal complaint.
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| One can ask, but expected to be immediately redirected to the local SAFEA/PSB for handling. This is a well visited matter. |
I did as to another matter dealing with salary and was directed to the labor board, that is why I have related this experience. Currently several teachers are requesting this payment from schools in this area.
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| It all boils down to this, if it isn't in your contract, don't expect it. |
What has the FT got to lose... if they never try and claim this then for certain it will not materialize but for the FT who feels that he is due this by law and perhaps wants to "school" an administrator to take them down a notch, it seems like an almost effortlessly method of improving future work conditions. You know we see a lot of grips here bout the way FTs are treated as to their work conditions and at some point, workers have to insist that they be treated according to the law. Why complain and do nothing... |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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for the FT who feels that he is due this by law and perhaps wants to "school" an administrator to take them down a notch, it seems like an almost effortlessly method of improving future work conditions.
Indulging in jejune revenge fantasies might be understandable from those still in their acne years, but from adults, wouldn't you expect a higher level coping and negotiating skills? Why would one not negotiate everything one wanted in a contract and be satisfied with that? |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| FTs who attempt to "school" administrators in the laws of their own land in an effort to "take them down a notch" usually end up being schooled in the art of looking for a new job. |
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gene
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| FTs who attempt to "school" administrators in the laws of their own land in an effort to "take them down a notch" usually end up being schooled in the art of looking for a new job. |
In this case you have already left your position and therefore your point has no legs....retro-action is the safest and the claim can be put in the works after securing a new job.
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| or the FT who feels that he is due this by law and perhaps wants to "school" an administrator to take them down a notch, it seems like an almost effortlessly method of improving future work conditions. |
No advancement in work conditions was ever effortless. As I say, this is being tested now in Beijing ans as Beijing goes so does the country...school owners may have to actually observe employment laws in the future.
Why would any FT be against advancements in working conditions and payment. The only way FTS will be able to claim their rights under Chinese law is to test the law and go through the procedures. Like I said, if the FT is not willing to request their rights under law, then who can blame the mill owners for treating them like "dancing monkeys" who deserve peanuts. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| gene wrote: |
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| or the FT who feels that he is due this by law and perhaps wants to "school" an administrator to take them down a notch, it seems like an almost effortlessly method of improving future work conditions. |
No advancement in work conditions was ever effortless. As I say, this is being tested now in Beijing ans as Beijing goes so does the country...school owners may have to actually observe employment laws in the future.
Why would any FT be against advancements in working conditions and payment. The only way FTS will be able to claim their rights under Chinese law is to test the law and go through the procedures. Like I said, if the FT is not willing to request their rights under law, then who can blame the mill owners for treating them like "dancing monkeys" who deserve peanuts. |
did you just quote yourself above and then rail against it?
From your previous post:
| gene wrote: |
| What has the FT got to lose... if they never try and claim this then for certain it will not materialize but for the FT who feels that he is due this by law and perhaps wants to "school" an administrator to take them down a notch, it seems like an almost effortlessly method of improving future work conditions. You know we see a lot of grips here bout the way FTs are treated as to their work conditions and at some point, workers have to insist that they be treated according to the law. Why complain and do nothing... |
It never hurts to ask about these benefits, and I'll be asking my FAO about severance pay since I've been at this school for five years now. It would add up to a nice pile of cash. However I'm also of the mind that if its not in the contract, don't expect to see it. At any rate, I'll post back on the FAO's reply to my request for info on severance pay after time served. |
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gene
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| did you just quote yourself above and then rail against it? |
I don't think I railed against anything but if this is a major point for you perhaps further discussion is warranted...the action of the request is effortless however any advancement in labor rights will require a great deal of effort.
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However I'm also of the mind that if its not in the contract, don't expect to see it. At any rate, I'll post back on the FAO's reply to my request for info on severance pay after time served.
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Absolutely, expectations may only result in disappointment. Looking back at other history illustrates that labor activism comes when workers have had enough, and band together in activist waves and promote legal request and remedies. There is an increasing trend of higher wages on the coastal manufacturing regions due to population shifts. Migrants will not go there so they have had to hire locals and this has resulted in several strikes recently. Honda Motor Co. will raise wages at a parts factory in China after a strike at the plant shut down its local car production. Foxconn is increasing wages for its factory workers in China and even though these settlements are involved with foreign companies, it is a place to start as are the labor board complaint forms...When enough complaints are filed, the regulations will catch up or new decisions will come down the pike. Come on, whats it take to fill out a form?
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| Indulging in jejune revenge fantasies might be understandable from those still in their acne years, but from adults, wouldn't you expect a higher level coping and negotiating skills? Why would one not negotiate everything one wanted in a contract and be satisfied with that? |
Why would you need to negotiate a labor law? Why would subjecting a mill owner to labor laws of their country be a revenge fantasies and why would any FT not support higher wages and mill owners complying with labor laws. Why wouldn't a mill owner be satisfied with compliance instead of trying to shirk their responsibility if in fact it is legislated by labor law. But you have a point, for the FT who has been subjected to unfair labor practices then sticking it to the man would be somewhat satisfying. |
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El Chupacabra
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Location: Kwangchow
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Teatime of Soul wrote: |
| Indulging in jejune revenge fantasies might be understandable from those still in their acne years, but from adults, wouldn't you expect a higher level coping and negotiating skills? Why would one not negotiate everything one wanted in a contract and be satisfied with that? |
Jejune revenge fantasies is a very condescending phrase, TOS. There is nothing juvenile about complying with the law. In the case of Gene's hypothetical procedure, it also has nothing to do with pre-contract negotiation. It's up to us FTs to stand up for our rights; I hardly see what's juvenile about that.
It seems more puerile to lie down with our bellies up in these situations. While the OP may have his/her case dismissed, it would be very mature to go through the motions. I gathered that that was Gene's point. Belittling that suggestion is perhaps a bit. . .jejune? |
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