Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Are you ever worried?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Japan
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kidkensei



Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:18 am    Post subject: Are you ever worried? Reply with quote

Your making it actually more difficult for your JHS kids to speak english later on in life?


Someone will figure out that your actually just getting paid to recite words and phrases in a sexy/cool way so students can succeed on tests?

Kensei
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Apsara



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who exactly are you addressing?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ripslyme



Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 481
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:31 am    Post subject: Re: Are you ever worried? Reply with quote

kidkensei wrote:
Your making it actually more difficult for your JHS kids to speak english later on in life?


Someone will figure out that your actually just getting paid to recite words and phrases in a sexy/cool way so students can succeed on tests?

Kensei


I'm more worried that YOU'RE in front of a class of JHS kids in any sort of teaching capacity.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mhard1



Joined: 09 Dec 2009
Posts: 54
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol ouch ripslyme. take it easy Laughing

I think the point that the kid ken wants to make is that he feels his main role is more of an entertainer and not necessarily that of an educator.

I have sometimes felt that way as well. It is very frustrating.

My advice is to find meaning in the activity that you do, realize that every grain of sand has its significance on the beach...

and if that doesn`t do the trick then consider getting a Masters and working with smaller class sizes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if you're a fantastic (qualified?) teacher, the fact is, you're only seen as really helping as an Assistant ET if you don't steer the boat too near the mist-shrouded jagged foreign coastline (think Shutter Island Smile ) - better to pick up supplies at safer local ports etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SweetTea



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Are you ever worried? Reply with quote

kidkensei wrote:
Your making it actually more difficult for your JHS kids to speak english later on in life?


Someone will figure out that your actually just getting paid to recite words and phrases in a sexy/cool way so students can succeed on tests?

Kensei


I actually am quite worried... but just about life in general, not about the value of teaching.

Sorry, but how does reciting words in a sexy/cool way help your students succeed on tests? Or was that supposed to be sarcastic... I have a hard time telling.

I had a lot of fun taking Mandarin in college because I just repeated after the teacher. For students with an ear for languages, it can be quite useful to have a model for reference. Don't worry, though your kids might not look like they're listening and paying attention, at least a few things you've said will probably have gotten through to their memory banks. Like tossing rings onto a prize at a carnival or dropping coins into an overfull water jar and hoping it drops onto the decorative frog/dragon in the middle (lucky!!!).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JLL



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Japanese people, thanks to the education system, are TERRIBLE at English and at learning it. Even the ones who as adults sign up for private lessons at eikaiwa rarely learn much.

The only ones who really learn English are the very rare ones that apply themselves and truly try to acquire the skill of speaking it, and the ones who live abroad for a time.

They just aren't raised to learn other languages. They complain that English is so hard; it may be tricky but it isn't like Hungarian, or even German. It isn't that hard.

You have to take a step back and see the big picture in Japan: are your students genuinely trying to better their English? Are they just looking to pass some time, or be able to "understand English songs" or something like that? Just looking for a good time and a smiley conversation? Fair enough; we all have needs. Give them what they want and you can be very happy yourself by satisfying them.

But if you gauge your success and happiness based on the actual academic progress of your students, you will in most situations be terribly disappointed. And that isn't necessary!

PS I watched a documentary about India recently... their English seems better than mine sometimes. They use words that I haven't thought of in a while... and they use them well. Better learners.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
seklarwia



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLL wrote:
They just aren't raised to learn other languages. They complain that English is so hard; it may be tricky but it isn't like Hungarian, or even German. It isn't that hard.

I love it when people make these statements. Evil or Very Mad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bule_boy69



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 158
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my favourite.

JLL wrote:
PS I watched a documentary about India recently... their English seems better than mine sometimes. They use words that I haven't thought of in a while... and they use them well. Better learners.


Written by someone who has no experience of teaching Indian students I suspect?

And as i assume you meant better LANGUAGE learners.... it's not really fair to compare (probably unrepresentable sample) speakers in a documentary on a former British colony to Japanese students.

While the Japanese may find English harder to pick up, for a number of reasons, a motivated Japanese student of English is capable of attaining a better standard than the large number of Indians who are convinced that their English is good enough.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
flyer



Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 539
Location: Sapporo Japan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLL wrote:
Japanese people, thanks to the education system, are TERRIBLE at English and at learning it. Even the ones who as adults sign up for private lessons at eikaiwa rarely learn much.

The only ones who really learn English are the very rare ones that apply themselves and truly try to acquire the skill of speaking it, and the ones who live abroad for a time.

But if you gauge your success and happiness based on the actual academic progress of your students, you will in most situations be terribly disappointed. And that isn't necessary!

PS I watched a documentary about India recently... their English seems better than mine sometimes. They use words that I haven't thought of in a while... and they use them well. Better learners.


I don't think you can compare India to Japan. One of Indias official language is English, and being an old colony of England, tend to keep the English from that era (where the English in England, Aust, NZ etc continued to evolve/change) The same thing has happened to Canaidan French (when compared to modern French in France) They tend to use slightly out of date (to us) phrases and words like in an old movie, they sound very polite (that was the norm back then)
On top of this most products are in English, many English TV stations and gernerally English is heard everyday (I know I spent 4 months there)
This is totally different to the Japanese foreign language learning situation. This has been covered before in other threads, but the Japanese education system is good at subject that are 1;1 (for lack of a better phrase) or just memorizing things. Langauges do not fit into this box. One word can mean different things in different situations, this doesn't suit the Japanese (usual) way of learning. But there are teachers now that are starting to try different methods, the trouble is, Japan is slow to change

anyway, back to the original point, no I do not worry! they will learn more with you there than without you (in most cases)
anyway, my 2c worth
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:37 am    Post subject: Do your homework Reply with quote

Kidkensei,

No, I'm not worried about impairing my students' ability to learn English in the future.

If you haven't already, you should read up on some of the issues in culture and eductation that so often come up with non-Japanese teaching English to Japanese -

http://www.brookes.ac.uk/schools/education/eal/jl-archive/jl-bestof/18.pdf

http://books.google.ca/books?id=OJj27BEmTmsC&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=japanese+essentialism&source=bl&ots=7siIzZrzor&sig=u0ryPba5n70fc_9m_2BNoGQOwW0&hl=en&ei=UtQETJLPN4jCcaTbpPQE&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBYQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=japanese%20essentialism&f=false
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bread



Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLL wrote:
They just aren't raised to learn other languages. They complain that English is so hard; it may be tricky but it isn't like Hungarian, or even German. It isn't that hard.

Wait, what? I used to be conversational in German and I can say that it's WAY easier than English is. Right off the bat, you can instantly pronounce a word just by looking at it. And that's a BIG deal when pronunciation is one of the major stumbling points for Japanese foreign language learners, since they've had kana drilled into their heads so hard that they have an incredibly difficult time hearing non-kana sounds. The grammar is also pretty straightforward and there are a lot fewer strange exceptions to rules.

That said, learning any language is just a matter of determination. If students genuinely care about learning a foreign language and are willing to dedicate themselves to it, then it's pretty much a given that they'll succeed. I knew a lot of Koreans who had great English. Why? Because they wanted to get the hell out of Korea. Japanese people just don't really care about English because they don't really care about any of the uses of English. They'd like to be able to understand some stuff when they go on vacation to Ayers Rock, but that's just a passing fancy. In pretty much every public school class of students not really paying attention to you, there are one or two girls taking diligent notes who just might end up actually learning the language. For me, at least, those are the ones that make it worthwhile.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
seklarwia



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bread wrote:
Wait, what? I used to be conversational in German and I can say that it's WAY easier than English is. Right off the bat, you can instantly pronounce a word just by looking at it. And that's a BIG deal when pronunciation is one of the major stumbling points for Japanese foreign language learners, since they've had kana drilled into their heads so hard that they have an incredibly difficult time hearing non-kana sounds. The grammar is also pretty straightforward and there are a lot fewer strange exceptions to rules.

Although, I too thought that that was an outrageous comment to make, as someone who is more than conversational and had the pleasure of studying linguistics, Spanish, Japanese and even German language in German at uni in Austria and Germany, I can tell you it really isn't quite so easy and I wouldn't say easier than learning English (especially if the learner is not an English native). And I thought grammar was pretty straight forward too until about my 5th year. And even before that there were many hints of things to come.

I agree 100% about the pronunciation of written words being easier but that's about it.
Actually, I'd be more inclined to say that many of the things that an English speaker finds difficult about learning German are similar to those experienced by Japanese speakers learning English.

We have huge issues with the obscene number of articles in German. The Japanese have to learn how to use articles in English when they don't even have them in their own language.

Irregular verb forms in German? We've got a nice selection of those in English, too.

When in conversation in German it is very normal for English speakers to accidentally use the wrong verb tense form for the subject because they have more than we do in English. And the Japanese have the same problem in English because we have more than they do.

We have plurals in English, yet plurals in German can be fun and games. Plurals maybe simpler in English when in comparison to German, but the Japanese don't really use plurals at all so it's no wonder that a little 's' (or lack of for so many of my students no matter how hard I try) causes problems for Japanese speakers.

Trying to get beginner students to remember capital letters is as difficult as trying to get a English speaker to remember to capitalize properly in German.

Though I'd imagine a Japanese speaker would have a much easier time dealing with the structure of Nebens�tze than I had as a child. Laughing

I could go on, but my powers of description without resorting to German terminology are pretty pathetic and I'm also taking a hop, skip and a jump off what was already a tangent to the thread topic.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
starteacher



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only language anyone really needs to learn is the language of love.

Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Language is sexually transmitted - from mother to child, and between lovers Wink

Starteacher's comment might appear flip. But it's true. A teacher who has real love for their job, and love (in the sense of caritas, charity) for their students and believes in their success, can make an impact.

Look at the late Mr. Escalante. He believed kids could succeed no matter what life had dealt them. And the students loved him for it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Japan All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China