Job Discussion Forums

sandsean · Joined: 24 Jul 2009 Posts: 6

i'm coming to the end of my contract at this school and they've just revealed to me that they want me to pay for my own plane ticket back to the US rather than providing me with with a ticket. when they informed me of this they didn't provide any reason, except to preface it by telling me how much they've spent on my visa and KITAS (the implication being: we've spent enough money on you already). i went and got my contract, that is signed by the owner of the school, and pointed out where it clearly says that the school is responsible for all costs associated with my visa and working papers and round-trip airfare from my home in the US to indonesia and back. the person who gave me the news (principal) was doing his best to play the "don't shoot the messenger" card by saying that he didn't know anything about my contract and that he was just relaying the decision that had been made by the foundation that runs the school. as i said, i did show him the relevant portions of the contract, but he said that he would have to talk to the foundation and get back to me.

i'm trying to set up a meeting with the owner of the school so i can just talk to her directly and try to figure out what's up. i'm just looking or any advice anyone might have about how to play this. it seems pretty cut and dry to me that they are trying to deny me something that is in my contract but they have played fast and loose with at least one of my co-workers who was dismissed in the past year with regard to what he was entitled to upon being terminated. if they are really dead set on making me pay for my own airfare, what are reasonable responses? threatening to trash their name on this and other expat messageboards? calling the consulate?

there is a secondary issue which is that of getting my EPO so i can leave the country. after school lets out (june 11) i'll be travelling around the country for 3 weeks with my sister. the school has already said that they'll process my EPO for me, but i was hoping not to return to the city where the school is before i leave the country. the last stop on my travel itinerary is bali, so i'm wondering if i could just get them to send my passport to the US consulate in bali after it's been stamped and then i could pick it up there. another option would be to have them send it to of friend of mine's house in jakarta and i could stop over there after bali to pick it up before leaving the country. of course, this business with them trying to deny me my airfare has me a little worried about trusting them with my passport in the first place.. if worst comes to worst i could go back to the city i'm in now after bali and get the EPO myself, but that is probably the least ideal situation.

okay, congrats if you've made it all the way to the end of this. any and all advice, suggestions, or sharing of comparable situations you've been in would be appreciated!

scooby doo · Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Posts: 48

As far as my experience goes, the EPO can only be processed by the employer and immigration usually prefer to do so a week or two before departure. Once the EPO is issued, you have 2 weeks to leave the country.

As people have said before on this board, I think it would be highly unwise to leave your passport with any party other than your country's embassy. Especially not with an employer who sounds unreliable.

Regarding the standard employment contracts for foreign teachers; they are not officially considered a legal document in Indonesia but rather serve as a guideline for the mutual agreement between teacher and school. Therefore you probably have no legal avenue to pursue, like sue them in court or anything like that. I also doubt your consulate will help with the issue. You could certainly threaten to trash their name on this board, in fact you should do it anyway to warn other people! You know they'll try to do this to someone else if they have the chance.

If they are trying to back out of their promises to you, perhaps they are unhappy with you for some reason and are looking for a way to escalate this into a conflict? If this is the case, you need to know that you will probably not win this fight and are running the risk of them screwing you with your EPO and ruining your travel plans with your sister. Is it worth it?

malu · Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 1344 Location: Sunny Java

If you are persistent you may get one of your two wishes, but I doubt you will get both.

It is possible the school may consider cooperation with the EPO in comiseration for loss of the flight. It is also possible that you could name and shame them on this and other forums and - perhaps more damaging - complain to manpower and immigration about them. Note that immigration won't do anything to help you, but they would welcome the chance of screwing some money out of the school and if you tell the school that you are serious about making an official complaint they may capitulate about the flight money. In the latter case the school may retaliate by EPO'ing you at an inconvenient date.

At moments like this it comes in useful if you have cultivated good relations with the parents' council or similar because they often have a lot of clout.

sandsean · Joined: 24 Jul 2009 Posts: 6

thanks for the advice scooby and malu!

certainly does seem like i'm going to get screwed one way or the other. let's say that the school does agree to reimburse me for my ticket but they either won't process my EPO or i just don't feel comfortable giving them my passport. does anyone know if i will i have any trouble when i go to leave the country without having an EPO and not having cancelled my KITAS? from what i've read online if you do have an EPO then you don't have to pay fiskal tax (right?), so if i don't have one i assume i'd have to pay that. but they won't actually stop me from getting on my flight, say from bali to singapore?

it's entirely possible that they're unhappy with me for some reason, though no one at the school has ever bemoaned my performance. there was quite a bit of drama surrounding the dismissal of one of my co-workers, the fallout of which is still being felt today. the school may perceive me as disloyal or something because i still maintain good ties with him. who knows. unfortunately there is no parents' council or parent-teacher's association to speak of.. the school is quite new and such things are planned but have yet to be implemented.

thanks again for the support and i'm curious to hear any other thoughts or input people might have.

scooby doo · Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Posts: 48

I'm pretty sure you cannot get on a plane without an EPO (fiscal or not). You would have to bribe your way out of the country. That tactic could cost you more than the ticket you're about to lose...

I would not recommend turning up at immigration or manpower and whinging about your employer unless you have a really good case against them.

malu · Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 1344 Location: Sunny Java

If you have an exit re-entry permit in your passport you can leave any time you choose and if you have a tax number - which you damn well should have - then you don't pay Fiskal. Such a course of action would also cause expense and hassle to the employer with immigration. If you don't have any kind of exit permit then you can't get out of the country legally. Note that leaving with a KITAS not cancelled would also make it difficult for you to get a work visa should you ever come back to Indo.

Whatever happens, do name the school here and I will copy the info to the Indonesia expat forum website as a warning to others. New school or not they have contractual obligations and if they will rip you off for an air ticket they could rip someone else off in the future for much more.

travelNteach · Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Posts: 222

If your co-worker was terminated, they didnt owe him anything and there were probably clauses in the contract that stated he/she had to reimburse them for visa costs, bule tax, etc.

scooby is wrong. the contract is a legal document and you can sue them. althougth the justice system is rife with corruption and takes years for lawsuits to find their way thru the court system with all the appeals processes, 3 years ago they created the manpower court which specializes in disputes between employers and employees and stated that they would have all cases resolved within 90 days. i havent checked in the last year or 2, but i know that they were indeed resolving cases very quickly with no recourse for appeals. you can easily get a free consultation with a lawyer. on the downside, lawyer fees are generally not allowed as part of the judgement, but this may have changed in recent years. I and others have been successful in our lawsuits. often times, a letter from an attorney putting the school on notice that they are going to be sued is enough to get the school to cough up the money.

depending on your immigration office, most of them genuinely care about the foreigner and his/her rights. this may only be because they can get a lot more money from the school than the teacher, but it is indonesian law that a return ticket be given to all expat workers,not something that the school is doing out of the kindness of their heart. so if u tell immigration that u have no ticket home, they will immediately summon the owner. he will have to arrive with a ticket and a brown envelope of money in hand. i know several teachers this has happened to. as long as the school has't terminted you, u are guaranteed this.

the school cannot process the epo without your passport, so u dont have to worry about the school epo'ing u as a form or retalition. but it does have to be done at the end of your contract and u have 14 days to leave from the date you got your epo or the date at the end of the contract, whichever comes first. u will have to give it to them/their agent, unless u can go with them that day and be present during the processing.

if u plan to travel for 3 weeks with your sister, it might be a good idea to fly out on your EPO and come back on a tourist visa. if u have finished your 1 year contract, everyday that u are in the country past that date, u incur a 25 dollar a day fine. so even if the school agreed to mail it to u, u would still overstay the amount of time are legally allowed in the country unless the kitas is more that 3 weeks after you complete the school year.

if you had a re-entry permit, u could leave without the epo but it would cost you 2.5 millon if u didnt have an NPWP card. u can always get a new passport when u get home and a new number is issued. u would then be free to return to indonesia for either work or pleasure.

sandsean · Joined: 24 Jul 2009 Posts: 6

so much good information! thanks to all

i don't have a tax number / NPWP. i hope i can get one in the next few weeks before i leave the city so i can avoid paying fiskal tax. i'm having a hell of a time figuring out what my kelurahan and kecamatan are though. is there somewhere online i can plug in my address and it will tell me what kelurahan and kecamatan i live in?

my KITAS is actually good until november (i guess the school was banking on me staying for at least another year..) so i don't think i have to worry about paying fines for overstaying.

very glad to hear that i can go to imigrasi if the school does try to withhold my ticket. i have not been terminated and have fulfilled all the tenets of my contract so they don't really have any just cause for denying me what they promised.

i will out the school once the situation has been resolved. at the moment i want to avoid having this thread show up on google searches for the school's name lest they find out that i've been talking mess about them on the internet. yesterday the owner's secretary sent me SMS asking when i was hoping to fly back to the US so maybe they are reconsidering.. i sure hope so. anyway, i'm supposed to meet for dinner tonight with the other two employees who were terminated earlier this year so i will probably be privy to even more of the school's dirty laundry.

sandsean · Joined: 24 Jul 2009 Posts: 6

scooby doo · Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Posts: 48

travelNteach · Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Posts: 222

scooby, i have been here since 97 so i guess u have 2 years more experience than me. and it is entirely possble that we have had different experiences. i have gone to court and won a judgement against a language school for breach of contract.

what exactly do u find dangerous about advising someone to consult an attorney? or check information with immigration directly?

malu · Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 1344 Location: Sunny Java

I bet your contract states your salary net of Indonesian income tax. Check it, and if so ask - very matter-of-factly - for your NPWP and statement of tax to 31st March. If they can't give you any OFFICIAL proof that tax has been paid on your income then you can also threaten to dob them in it with the tax office which could prove mega expensive for them.

scooby doo · Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Posts: 48

malu · Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 1344 Location: Sunny Java

travelNteach · Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Posts: 222

scoby: i am not in the least annoyed with u. I agree that bribes cannot fix every situation. and i was just looking for some concrete examples of when people in the right were done unfairly. lets face it, even courts in our own countries convict innocent people. i am open to the fact that we both have different experiences and just wanted to learn more about yours. please dont take it the wrong way........ i wasnt trying to start an arguement with u, just an open discussion where different viewpoints/experiences could be shared. and i appreciate u admitting that in part u just felt uncomfortable.

malu: exactly my point. schools are afraid of government agencies.......... that is why the want the teachers to be scared to use them. because the schools know that generally they will be on the losing side. if u are one of those that beleves extortion runs rampant......... who has more money, you or the school?